|
|
Post by quinn on Mar 12, 2013 16:03:23 GMT -5
Max, Quinn, you've probably seen this stuff before ... but ... I've found this really helpful in terms of sitting ... the usual disclaimers apply: no reason to sit as it is the practice of what we are never not ... sitting is ultimately futile. yadda. yadda. and more yadda.  Ultimately though, every instant is an opportunity to follow the roads that lead to Rome. Thanks, laughter. I'm real familiar with lots of forms of meditation and have pretty much settled on a simple practice when the urge strikes. Mostly meditation has seeped into my days in a real informal way. Ironically, I teach meditation classes - ironic because I've pretty much let go of the practice of it. I have to say, though, it always bugs me when someone teaching meditation tells you what you're going to 'discover'. Your buddy there says, "This is a wordless realization, and this realization is the initial shift away from identification with ego/mind/thoughts when it's realized that "You" are the alertness itself, You are the stillness itself, You are the peacefulness itself." I prefer to let people discover what they discover. |
|
|
|
Post by tzujanli on Mar 12, 2013 16:13:17 GMT -5
Greetings.. Max, Quinn, you've probably seen this stuff before ... but ... I've found this really helpful in terms of sitting ... the usual disclaimers apply: no reason to sit as it is the practice of what we are never not ... sitting is ultimately futile. yadda. yadda. and more yadda. Ultimately though, every instant is an opportunity to follow the roads that lead to Rome. Thanks, laughter. I'm real familiar with lots of forms of meditation and have pretty much settled on a simple practice when the urge strikes. Mostly meditation has seeped into my days in a real informal way. Ironically, I teach meditation classes - ironic because I've pretty much let go of the practice of it. I have to say, though, it always bugs me when someone teaching meditation tells you what you're going to 'discover'. Your buddy there says, "This is a wordless realization, and this realization is the initial shift away from identification with ego/mind/thoughts when it's realized that "You" are the alertness itself, You are the stillness itself, You are the peacefulness itself." I prefer to let people discover what they discover. I'm not sure there's much i can add to your awareness of stillness.. Be well.. |
|
|
|
Post by silence on Mar 12, 2013 16:19:56 GMT -5
Max, Quinn, you've probably seen this stuff before ... but ... I've found this really helpful in terms of sitting ... the usual disclaimers apply: no reason to sit as it is the practice of what we are never not ... sitting is ultimately futile. yadda. yadda. and more yadda. Ultimately though, every instant is an opportunity to follow the roads that lead to Rome. Thanks, laughter. I'm real familiar with lots of forms of meditation and have pretty much settled on a simple practice when the urge strikes. Mostly meditation has seeped into my days in a real informal way. Ironically, I teach meditation classes - ironic because I've pretty much let go of the practice of it. I have to say, though, it always bugs me when someone teaching meditation tells you what you're going to 'discover'. Your buddy there says, "This is a wordless realization, and this realization is the initial shift away from identification with ego/mind/thoughts when it's realized that "You" are the alertness itself, You are the stillness itself, You are the peacefulness itself." I prefer to let people discover what they discover. Yeah. Sitting down and being still is either something you feel like doing or you don't. If you don't and you think you should anyway, that's what needs to be resolved rather than "doing it better". I agree with the second paragraph as well. People find themselves in many self fulfilling prophecies that then need to be deconstructed as well. I don't know and I don't care about telling anyone how anything is going to be for them. |
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Mar 12, 2013 16:24:58 GMT -5
Greetings.. Thanks, laughter. I'm real familiar with lots of forms of meditation and have pretty much settled on a simple practice when the urge strikes. Mostly meditation has seeped into my days in a real informal way. Ironically, I teach meditation classes - ironic because I've pretty much let go of the practice of it. I have to say, though, it always bugs me when someone teaching meditation tells you what you're going to 'discover'. Your buddy there says, "This is a wordless realization, and this realization is the initial shift away from identification with ego/mind/thoughts when it's realized that "You" are the alertness itself, You are the stillness itself, You are the peacefulness itself." I prefer to let people discover what they discover. I'm not sure there's much i can add to your awareness of stillness.. Be well.. Do you mean that as, "You've already got a hardened belief system surrounding stillness, so it would be pointless to get into a discussion." or "I pretty much see it the same way, so we don't really need to discuss it." ? |
|
|
|
Post by tzujanli on Mar 12, 2013 17:28:08 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I'm not sure there's much i can add to your awareness of stillness.. Be well.. Do you mean that as, "You've already got a hardened belief system surrounding stillness, so it would be pointless to get into a discussion." or "I pretty much see it the same way, so we don't really need to discuss it." ? You described your awareness in a way that feels appropriate to me.. i also try to offer the tools for finding stillness, the finding and the understanding are not matters i hope to influence/prejudice.. Be well.. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Mar 12, 2013 22:28:47 GMT -5
Greetings.. That wouldn't actually be my approach, though I also wouldn't embrace the paradox by declaring both separation and oneness. To be clear.. my 'preference' is no declaration.. not oneness or manyness or separation or non-duality.. but, when something 'is' declared, like oneness, then it's defining contrasting principle is declared, too.. Be well.. Yes, no declaration is best, though the pre-existing assumption/declaration of most is separation, so this assumption has to be challenged. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Mar 12, 2013 22:35:38 GMT -5
Greetings.. Do you mean that as, "You've already got a hardened belief system surrounding stillness, so it would be pointless to get into a discussion." or "I pretty much see it the same way, so we don't really need to discuss it." ? You described your awareness in a way that feels appropriate to me.. i also try to offer the tools for finding stillness, the finding and the understanding are not matters i hope to influence/prejudice.. Be well.. If you agree with that, then you and I also agree and never had any significant differences to begin with.  |
|
|
|
Post by tzujanli on Mar 12, 2013 23:35:57 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. You described your awareness in a way that feels appropriate to me.. i also try to offer the tools for finding stillness, the finding and the understanding are not matters i hope to influence/prejudice.. Be well.. If you agree with that, then you and I also agree and never had any significant differences to begin with. LOL.. No, that's not accurate.. but, i appreciate the thought.. Nothing "has to be challenged", that's a choice.. a volitional personal choice.. what i find interesting is the motivation for such challenges, and the unwillingness to confront one's motivations.. When you tell someone their statements are not true, and non-duality is 'true'.. how do you validate your belief that you are not intending to influence the understandings of others? Be well.. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Mar 13, 2013 0:27:29 GMT -5
Greetings.. If you agree with that, then you and I also agree and never had any significant differences to begin with. LOL.. No, that's not accurate.. but, i appreciate the thought.. Nothing "has to be challenged", that's a choice.. a volitional personal choice.. what i find interesting is the motivation for such challenges, and the unwillingness to confront one's motivations.. When you tell someone their statements are not true, and non-duality is 'true'.. how do you validate your belief that you are not intending to influence the understandings of others? Be well.. Obviously, I am. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2013 7:49:47 GMT -5
I tried it this morning, as an experiment. Lets just say that monkeymind had my monkeybody moving too.  Viewing it as an experiment, without any expectation is exactly the right way of looking at it. Connors was suggesting that you may get momentary glimpses of what effortlessness is like and that these sort of build up and subvert the efforting over a while. 10-15 minutes twice a day is better than going to TAT sessions, etc. Max, Quinn, you've probably seen this stuff before ... but ... I've found this really helpful in terms of sitting ... the usual disclaimers apply: no reason to sit as it is the practice of what we are never not ... sitting is ultimately futile. yadda. yadda. and more yadda. Ultimately though, every instant is an opportunity to follow the roads that lead to Rome. Thanks for that. I seem to be in a non-sitting phase these days. More into the 'every instant' brand, as I can fit it in easier  . Of course, I don't see any choice in the activity of 'fitting it in' -- I just seem to be paying attention (ATA) sometimes and not others. I might, absurd as it is, try out the effortless thing, which does sound similar to your kiki pal describes. |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Mar 14, 2013 14:55:39 GMT -5
Max, Quinn, you've probably seen this stuff before ... but ... I've found this really helpful in terms of sitting ... the usual disclaimers apply: no reason to sit as it is the practice of what we are never not ... sitting is ultimately futile. yadda. yadda. and more yadda. Ultimately though, every instant is an opportunity to follow the roads that lead to Rome. Thanks for that. I seem to be in a non-sitting phase these days. More into the 'every instant' brand, as I can fit it in easier . Of course, I don't see any choice in the activity of 'fitting it in' -- I just seem to be paying attention (ATA) sometimes and not others. I might, absurd as it is, try out the effortless thing, which does sound similar to your kiki pal describes. simple is good, simple is easy  . kiki's path was TM for like a century and then a sudden realization. He's as relentless on the point of the fallacy of the person as he is gentle. He's the only voice that ever stated "what we are" instead of "what we aren't" that I didn't feel like arguing with. Sitting will happen or it won't, no big deal either way. Just remember when that voice perks up and says "yer yer brain fool" ... think of the chorus of laughter and say "oh reaalllly?". |
|
|
|
Post by tzujanli on Mar 14, 2013 15:02:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. LOL.. No, that's not accurate.. but, i appreciate the thought.. Nothing "has to be challenged", that's a choice.. a volitional personal choice.. what i find interesting is the motivation for such challenges, and the unwillingness to confront one's motivations.. When you tell someone their statements are not true, and non-duality is 'true'.. how do you validate your belief that you are not intending to influence the understandings of others? Be well.. Then, why do you state that you are not trying to influence what people believe? Be well.. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Mar 14, 2013 19:28:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. Then, why do you state that you are not trying to influence what people believe? Be well.. I dunno. I would have to see the context of that alleged comment. |
|
|
|
Post by tzujanli on Mar 14, 2013 19:44:42 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Then, why do you state that you are not trying to influence what people believe? Be well.. I dunno. I would have to see the context of that alleged comment. LOL.. yeah, that's about right.. how many 'contexts' can you weave into the illusions that contradiction are not fundamental flaws in the message you are preaching? But, you tell them that only non-duality and oneness are true.. and, when people clearly state they don't agree with oneness, you continue to mock, ridicule, and provoke.. you are not consistent within your own beliefs.. You will say anything to create the illusion that you are 'right', in an existence where being 'right' is wrong.. Be well.. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Mar 14, 2013 21:34:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. I dunno. I would have to see the context of that alleged comment. LOL.. yeah, that's about right.. how many 'contexts' can you weave into the illusions that contradiction are not fundamental flaws in the message you are preaching? But, you tell them that only non-duality and oneness are true.. and, when people clearly state they don't agree with oneness, you continue to mock, ridicule, and provoke.. you are not consistent within your own beliefs.. Axshooly, I don't. Arisha keeps wanting to talk about oneness, but I'm not interested in discussing the subject with her, and in spite of her ongoing mocking and provocations, I pretty much ignore the issue now, which of course leads to more charges of avoiding. You also want to discuss oneness/separation and the same thing happens. You both have views that differ from mine on oneness and I don't know why you want to keep talking about it. |
|
Viewing it as an experiment, without any expectation is exactly the right way of looking at it. Connors was suggesting that you may get momentary glimpses of what effortlessness is like and that these sort of build up and subvert the efforting over a while. 10-15 minutes twice a day is better than going to TAT sessions, etc.
. Of course, I don't see any choice in the activity of 'fitting it in' -- I just seem to be paying attention (ATA) sometimes and not others. I might, absurd as it is, try out the effortless thing, which does sound similar to your kiki pal describes.
. kiki's path was TM for like a century and then a sudden realization. He's as relentless on the point of the fallacy of the person as he is gentle. He's the only voice that ever stated "what we are" instead of "what we aren't" that I didn't feel like arguing with. Sitting will happen or it won't, no big deal either way.