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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 1:37:57 GMT -5
Post by acewall on Sept 7, 2011 1:37:57 GMT -5
'I wanna know' what I am accused of by the Thought Police here that alert each-other by phone or emails, so that *if* i've stepped outa line at anytime, I can take two-steps back again, return into my Cage as you put it!with care an attention  Whoa, Nelly! Thought police, phone calls and emails? Is that pure of heart or paranoia? I sensed Tat roping you into something here that you weren't going to like, but please don't think that folks here are turning on you. The whole thing is bit odd, is all, and OHC just offered a perspective on that oddity. If you don't see any oddity, then just consider this another perspective. It's fine. I dont have any problem saying what I want to say here, but I did read the thread that oneslaphand made where he(?) had to be called~in here to right what weirdidity that we are bringing to light, as we draw on our creativity to keep the site alive. Nothing wrong so far by me! |
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 1:47:26 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2011 1:47:26 GMT -5
Whoa, Nelly! Thought police, phone calls and emails? Is that pure of heart or paranoia? I sensed Tat roping you into something here that you weren't going to like, but please don't think that folks here are turning on you. The whole thing is bit odd, is all, and OHC just offered a perspective on that oddity. If you don't see any oddity, then just consider this another perspective. It's fine. I dont have any problem saying what I want to say here, but I did read the thread that oneslaphand made where he(?) had to be called~in here to right what weirdidity that we are bringing to light, as we draw on our creativity to keep the site alive. Nothing wrong so far by me! Good. Peeps are going to have different perspectives on this whole 'pure of heart' deally. Somebody was entertained by it and nudged OHC. I was a bit concerned about whether you were being set up. Others seem to be looking for a way to jump on the 'pure heart' bandwagon. No problems here either. Carry on. |
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 1:53:13 GMT -5
Post by enigma on Sept 7, 2011 1:53:13 GMT -5
BTW, I don't think the site is in danger of dying, and One Hand Slapping wasn't trying to right a wrong. What he said was "A friend told me that I needed to read some of your stuff cause you were cracking him up."
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:07:25 GMT -5
Post by onehandclapping on Sept 7, 2011 2:07:25 GMT -5
I guess even though enigma said what I wanted to say earlier, I will try to express a similar sentiment.
Tath, I too never attempted to put myself above anyone else on here. I was amused by your initial post of how you were gonna answer folks questions. We don't see that very often on this site. Although most on here have experienced a time when they felt they could answer all of them (Myself included. Hahaha).
I too have zero interest in debating you or defending myself. And I don't share in your need to be right. I argue and debate in life only for fun. About sports (gotta be right about them!! Hahaha!!) and other stuff like that. I see no fun or levity in the debates you wish to have. Nor in your chewing up of folks just to grab the top dog prize to steal a line from enigma.
I actually stopped posting on here for a while because I am not a word smith as some are on this site. As you are for that matter. I don't have the words to express what I experience or don't experience in life. Nor the words to attempt to point with complete clarity at IT for folks as others do. So I say what comes to my mind and hope for the best. You will easily tear apart anything I say if you so wish. That's why I went to holding up my digital index finger with your battery of questions for me. It says better what I can't express through words. But even in doing that, I'm not trying to create in your mind an illusory opponent. I am simply trying to poke you with the single ended stick as everyone tries to do to each other on here. No defense was or is needed because there was no offense being presented.
My last bit that I want to share is this. I don't have the desire to go beyond my ego. I'm okay with it just as it is. It can do it's little dance like the puppet it's always been. I am happy just standing on the shore (stealing from E again, sorry). I feel that the ego is the manifestation of IT whenever I talk or write. And it would be kind of hard to be on here talking if I didn't use that.
Egos in my opinion are fun. They give each person their little quirks. IT through ego gives enigma his snarkyness. Me, my sarcasm. My wife, her OCDness about the little piles of reciepts I make around the house. You, your lawyering of conversation. That's all awesome to me. I love it and think it is great that we all have these little ego's. Even if we know that we are not who or what or when or how or anything else, that they tell us. I am ok with mine hanging out. The pretend cell or mirrors or whatever else appears is ok with me. I love it all.
So in closing I guess I want to say this, put down your guns and sit with us Tath. We have nothing to give you and nothing to gain from you. We want nothing and require nothing. Just sit and be. And you might find that even the ugly flowers on here can still teach you.
-OHC
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:16:19 GMT -5
Post by onehandclapping on Sept 7, 2011 2:16:19 GMT -5
I reckon my long post can now be directed to ace as well after reading the one hand slapping compliments he gave me.
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:16:43 GMT -5
Post by tathagata on Sept 7, 2011 2:16:43 GMT -5
Just posted this elsewhere earlier: Jed says it well with the "spiritual circus". Every bit of it is an attempt to avoid the obvious. As they say, every step on the path is a step away because you're already here, you're already what you're looking for and what is looking for it. Obviously, you're not at the other end of a path or a practice, so what in blazes is going on? Why isn't everybody stopping right where they are, in utter confusion as to what to do next? Wouldn't this be the only appropriate response? The utter simplicity of you being here, now is unavoidable. How could you ever escape you? The absurdity of any sort of movement designed to reveal such obviousness is also obvious. If somebody doesn't want to notice the obvious, how far down the path does he have to travel before he DOES want to notice it, and is something on the path going to cause him to want that, or is the path just something else used to avoid the obvious? Has anybody noticed the absurdity of trying to find yourself? Aren't you the one looking? How could you be hiding from yourself while looking at the same time? You won't ever be able to spot yourself 'out there' somewhere cause you're right here looking for yourself. Hehe. To understand the nature of this absurdity you have to look through the patient eyes of a teacher. Now what do I mean by that? If you do not have the patience and empathy of a teacher, and you know how to solve a math problem that is very easy for you...it will seem absurd that someone who is struggling to understand it is not easily understanding it...this is where the noncondasending loving patience of a teacher comes into play...if you are comming at the person having difficulty with the problem from the heart of a patient teacher you dont see how it is absurd that it is difficult for someone...you dont walk around pulling your hair out saying "its obvious its obvious!!!"...you simply take the time to show them how to figure it out on their own. Why is it not obvious for everybody what their true nature is:...why is it not obvious? Becuase of the conditioning and habit of not looking for so long...habit is a very very powerful thing, belief is even more powerful. I once saw a guy hypnotized in a class, in hypnosis you can introduce beliefs straight into the deepest part of the mind...the teacher gave the guy the belief that his thumb and index fingers where fused together at the tips...after the hypnosis ended there was nothing anyone could do to split his thumb and index finger apart...the belief was there so it was his reality. we get conditioned from a very early age that we are seperate...the conditioning is so deep that it is an absolute belief and reality...becuase of this we only ever focus our awareness on a small part of ourself...we dont believe there is any more of us than our individual identities so we dont even look ...kinda like only looking at your hand for so long that you forget the rest of the body exists, and we do this for so long that we absolutely believe that there is nothing more than the hand...the conditioning creates a belief, and that belief becomes a reality for us...then we continue to except that reality for so long that it becomes a habit...we dont even bother to look and see if its true or not......we dont even try to look and see that there is a whole body there beyond the hand, even though its right in plain sight... So the reason people cant see the obvious is becuase of habit and conditioning that has become so engrained that we are constantly rebuilding and evolving the idea of seperateness...this is where technique comes in and can be useful...techniques undo (I know you've heard me say that once or twice now lol)....and what they undo is the conditioning and beliefs and habits that shape ones limited view of reality, those beliefs often obscure the obvious becuase the beliefs are so engrained that you cannot pull your finger and thumb apart no matter how hard you try, i.e. you cannot stop looking at the hand for long enough to see the whole body that you have... so techniques undo habits and conditioning and ideas about reality that keep us looking at the hand in a locked gaze. Max is a good example of this...what a wonderfully lucid and clear mind he has...why cant he open it up to the obvious that he is a small part of a whole and his partner is a small part of a whole, and that its all one whole...he is so smart and so lucid and so down to earth, why cant he see the obvious...well its becuase he is hypnotized or conditioned to believe that there are the two hands with no body connecting them...so he doesnt even look at the body he is connected to... so whats the best way to help our friend out of his habitual beliefs that are keeping him from seeing the obvious? Is it better to come at him like the guy who could do the math problem so easy that he gets frustrated with the guy who cant do it easliy and keeps saying "the solution is obvious, the solutions is obvious!!!"...or is it better to take the patient non judgmental teacher approach and give him a few pointers on how he can figure it out easier on his own? I vote for the latter...becuase no matter how much you scream "its obvious its obvious!!!" its not going to help someone who it is not obvious for. |
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:41:45 GMT -5
Post by onehandclapping on Sept 7, 2011 2:41:45 GMT -5
So do you mean that there is more than This Tath? You see something beyond This? I'm gonna need a name change if that's the case. One hand clapping....on the other hand or leg or whatever you mean.
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:45:22 GMT -5
Post by onehandclapping on Sept 7, 2011 2:45:22 GMT -5
Maybe I'll just go back to Two Hands Clapping. Break my habitual thought of one hand clapping being all there is.
Can one sue the Buddha despite being dead for this oversite?
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:46:15 GMT -5
Post by tathagata on Sept 7, 2011 2:46:15 GMT -5
I guess even though enigma said what I wanted to say earlier, I will try to express a similar sentiment. Tath, I too never attempted to put myself above anyone else on here. I was amused by your initial post of how you were gonna answer folks questions. We don't see that very often on this site. Although most on here have experienced a time when they felt they could answer all of them (Myself included. Hahaha). I too have zero interest in debating you or defending myself. And I don't share in your need to be right. I argue and debate in life only for fun. About sports (gotta be right about them!! Hahaha!!) and other stuff like that. I see no fun or levity in the debates you wish to have. Nor in your chewing up of folks just to grab the top dog prize to steal a line from enigma. I actually stopped posting on here for a while because I am not a word smith as some are on this site. As you are for that matter. I don't have the words to express what I experience or don't experience in life. Nor the words to attempt to point with complete clarity at IT for folks as others do. So I say what comes to my mind and hope for the best. You will easily tear apart anything I say if you so wish. That's why I went to holding up my digital index finger with your battery of questions for me. It says better what I can't express through words. But even in doing that, I'm not trying to create in your mind an illusory opponent. I am simply trying to poke you with the single ended stick as everyone tries to do to each other on here. No defense was or is needed because there was no offense being presented. My last bit that I want to share is this. I don't have the desire to go beyond my ego. I'm okay with it just as it is. It can do it's little dance like the puppet it's always been. I am happy just standing on the shore (stealing from E again, sorry). I feel that the ego is the manifestation of IT whenever I talk or write. And it would be kind of hard to be on here talking if I didn't use that. Egos in my opinion are fun. They give each person their little quirks. IT through ego gives enigma his snarkyness. Me, my sarcasm. My wife, her OCDness about the little piles of reciepts I make around the house. You, your lawyering of conversation. That's all awesome to me. I love it and think it is great that we all have these little ego's. Even if we know that we are not who or what or when or how or anything else, that they tell us. I am ok with mine hanging out. The pretend cell or mirrors or whatever else appears is ok with me. I love it all. So in closing I guess I want to say this, put down your guns and sit with us Tath. We have nothing to give you and nothing to gain from you. We want nothing and require nothing. Just sit and be. And you might find that even the ugly flowers on here can still teach you. -OHC Read that last post and you will see why I originally contested with enigma...it was really over ivory...you guys have a negative conotation of a teacher but I dont...in my mind a teacher is just someone with enough patience to sit down and give somebody some tips on how to solve and easy problem instead of just getting frustrated and saying "its obvious its obvious!!!" lol...if I could get ya to look inward for just long enough and question how obvious it might not be for somebody else then I felt like a little more patience in the helping people out department might be had. It takes a certain kind of patience and self reflection to step back and say hey, I thought there were parts of this problem that seem so obvious to me that all ya have to do is quit trying so hard and you will understand it, but I can see this part isnt comming as easy for you, what parts are you getting stuck on...and then after looking and seeing what parts they are stuck on being patient enough to give them enough information to solve the problem themselves with out solving it for them....I'm very cool with being this kind of teacher becuase I'm not in a hurry for anything anymore and dont have an agenda to fill...so no problem...i'll sit here and show some people that are struggling with the obvious how they can figure it out themselves... Frankly I spent so many years trying so many ways to see the obvious that I've picked a few tricks along the way and see people getting hung up on the exact same things I did... Some of you guys took a more direct route to seeing the obvious...I took the long road...I've often thought that someone who has had a very difficult and long struggle to realization is going to make a better helper becuase they have seen and done more mistakes and resolved more mistakes...they tried more stuff and screwed up more times so they have a little more patience and empathy.... no matter how many times you say to someone that they dont have to do all the steps cuase the problem is so simple, its not going to help them solve the problem if the problem is not simple for them....you have to let them work through the steps. so lets all be friends, and have a little less judgment, and a little more patience for those among us that have to work through the steps of undoing habits that hide the obvious. |
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:51:14 GMT -5
Post by onehandclapping on Sept 7, 2011 2:51:14 GMT -5
Are you also saying you are the patient, non-condescending teacher to this site? These are questions for clarity on your passage, not attempts on your life.
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:52:23 GMT -5
Post by tathagata on Sept 7, 2011 2:52:23 GMT -5
So do you mean that there is more than This Tath? You see something beyond This? I'm gonna need a name change if that's the case. One hand clapping....on the other hand or leg or whatever you mean. this is a matter of perspective...if your experience of yourself has broadened to seeing the still silent conciousness that is you and everything else as it forms itno its differant parts and indentities then no there is nothing more than this....if your view and direct experience is that you are in fact a seperate identity that is not just a part of the whole you then yes there is more than this... for some people the the latter is true for them, and for those people a look around at the rest of themselves can help a whole lot..if you already have experienced the whole you and not just the seperate identity you then there is no more than this. does that make sense? |
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 2:55:12 GMT -5
Post by tathagata on Sept 7, 2011 2:55:12 GMT -5
Are you also saying you are the patient, non-condescending teacher to this site? These are questions for clarity on your passage, not attempts on your life. with you and enigma, I have been the opposite of patient and condescending for a reason lol....but frankly you guys had nothing you needed from me that would help you undo the habits that keep you thinking you are seperate... On the othr hand...there are a few guys here who I have that patient noncondacending relationship with lol to be more clear...i'm not a patient teacher to the site, and frankly i dont think teacher is the right word anyway, it was just a way of making and allegory....however, the fact ramains that i have offered to sit and help guys with part of the puzzle that I've worked through...whether thats being a teacher or not I'll lett you decide...what strikes me is that there are a few guys, both of which has said that they have been guilty in the past of trying to prove how smart they are on these subjects, that have come and had a big problem with me answering questions....but in all honesty I dont think the problem is that I was answering questions as much as that people were asking me questions and getting answers, and it wasnt you that were providing those answers...I'm not trying to be mean here...but I think buried down in there someplace in both you and ivory is a kind of unwarranted jealousy that people were comming to me with their questions instead of you...I'm not value judging this...But I think it deserves and honest self appraisle....both of you guys seemed as thought you did not have a probelm with the advice I was giving as much as you had a problem that I was giving and people were taking my advice?... |
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 3:00:02 GMT -5
Post by onehandclapping on Sept 7, 2011 3:00:02 GMT -5
It's funny because it appears through your words that you think you can help someone with something. And yet no one has awoken because of a teacher. All awaken when IT decides to awaken ITself through ITself manifesting in a form of ITself. There is nothing to teach. There is no one here to teach. So I ask you, who is this you that is going to "show some people who are struggling with the obvious how they can figure it out themselves"?
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 3:00:21 GMT -5
Post by andrew on Sept 7, 2011 3:00:21 GMT -5
It's not the hands that need washing. There's a beautiful lesson going on here in the absence of any teacher. It's about the difference between the heart and the mind. One sees their brother, the other see's it's creepy, virusy, separate self, hidden away in humor and sarcasm. One is the light, while the other hides in the darkness. Heaven and Hell Who needs a teacher when there's Life? Peace another pure of heart, blessings and love brother andrew and enigma and others....if you want to know acewall look openly and with love from the heart, and not suspicion and prejudgment from the head...see which feels better, more right. I think in this instance tathagata that maybe you have been a bit overly suspicious and prejudgmental. I have no issue at all with acewall, from the little I have seen he looks like a decent chap with an open heart. I only popped onto this thread to say that I didnt want to get involved in this thread hehe. |
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Acewall
Sept 7, 2011 3:02:47 GMT -5
Post by acewall on Sept 7, 2011 3:02:47 GMT -5
another pure of heart, blessings and love brother andrew and enigma and others....if you want to know acewall look openly and with love from the heart, and not suspicion and prejudgment from the head...see which feels better, more right. I think in this instance tathagata that maybe you have been a bit overly suspicious and prejudgmental. I have no issue at all with acewall, from the little I have seen he looks like a decent chap with an open heart. I only popped onto this thread to say that I didnt want to get involved in this thread hehe. LOLOlolol, too late, You have involved yourself by posting!  ;D |
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