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Post by ivory on Aug 26, 2011 12:01:09 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
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Post by enigma on Aug 26, 2011 12:18:41 GMT -5
Ivory: TRF is correct. Always trust yourself 100%. There are many paths to the same realizations, so find one that resonates with you. A Soto Zen teacher might recommend meditating in silence every day. A Tibetan teacher might recommend the repetition of a mantra. I recommend ATA. E. recommends watching. Someone else might recommend self-observation. Ramana recommended self inquiry in the form of "Who am I?" Gangaji tells people to stop and be still. Byron Katie has her four questions (The Work). Tony Parsons tells people that there is absolutely nothing they can do. All of these admonitions or proclamations have worked for some people, so look at the different teachings and find one that resonates with you. Verify for yourself who seems most credible and test whatever approaches seem most reasonable from your perspective. As the Buddha said to his disciples, "Be a light unto yourself." Of course, if you look at all of these different approaches, you'll notice that they all share some fundamental similarities, and they are all designed to help you find answers to whatever existential questions interest you. All of them are designed to help you escape the mind and discover what is true. True, and what resonates will relate to whatever the current imaginary boulder is on the imaginary path in front of the imaginary seeker, and assuming some imaginary boulders actually get blown up now and then, different ideas will resonate at different times for most. |
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Post by andrew on Aug 26, 2011 13:14:24 GMT -5
I think the core belief in an approacher is released long before the actual approaches are released, though to be fair, when the core belief has been released the approaches become very 'moment by moment' approaches. There are still times when I might sit quietly for a while and observe the breath or watch my thoughts. There are times when I cultivate compassion or appreciation. There are times when I might forgive or step into another person's shoes and find some understanding. There are times when I lift my hand in the air like an antennae and allow joy to flow through me.
Even aside from this, when I write a shopping list to take to the store with me I am basically taking an approach. Approaches happen. In one way this is kind of a shame because what we want while the deep belief in an approacher is still present is for the approaches to dissolve totally. We think we need total beingness because it seems as if the approaches themselves are stressful, when it really isnt the approaches. In the end, I think we come to make peace with approaches happening and as we do that, the core belief in the approacher burns slowly away. We may not reside in total beingness all of the time, but where we are 'at' is generally enough.
The path unfolds in the way we often least expect in my opinion.
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Post by enigma on Aug 26, 2011 15:04:44 GMT -5
The path unfolds in the way we often least expect in my opinion. Sure, if the seeker knew where he was going, he would already be there. |
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Post by andrew on Aug 26, 2011 15:23:59 GMT -5
The path unfolds in the way we often least expect in my opinion. Sure, if the seeker knew where he was going, he would already be there. Yes. Thats kinda funny. |
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Post by ivory on Aug 26, 2011 17:10:19 GMT -5
I know exactly where I'm going... Straight to enlightenment so I can get all the hot babes. I'm soooo close!
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Post by acewall on Aug 26, 2011 18:02:00 GMT -5
I know exactly where I'm going... Straight to enlightenment so I can get all the hot babes. I'm soooo close! that is true... seems to attract women as well as men though.  getting away from them is an ART! |
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Post by ivory on Aug 26, 2011 19:46:07 GMT -5
Umm... Are you serious? I was just joking, but if you think enlightenment is hot babes and wild orgies, then... i dunno.
Maybe we should ask ZD and Enigma
Guys?
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Post by enigma on Aug 26, 2011 20:35:56 GMT -5
Umm... Are you serious? I was just joking, but if you think enlightenment is hot babes and wild orgies, then... i dunno. Maybe we should ask ZD and Enigma Guys? Marie says "Don't EVEN go there!"  |
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Post by therealfake on Aug 26, 2011 21:08:48 GMT -5
I think the core belief in an approacher is released long before the actual approaches are released, though to be fair, when the core belief has been released the approaches become very 'moment by moment' approaches. There are still times when I might sit quietly for a while and observe the breath or watch my thoughts. There are times when I cultivate compassion or appreciation. There are times when I might forgive or step into another person's shoes and find some understanding. There are times when I lift my hand in the air like an antennae and allow joy to flow through me. Even aside from this, when I write a shopping list to take to the store with me I am basically taking an approach. Approaches happen. In one way this is kind of a shame because what we want while the deep belief in an approacher is still present is for the approaches to dissolve totally. We think we need total beingness because it seems as if the approaches themselves are stressful, when it really isnt the approaches. In the end, I think we come to make peace with approaches happening and as we do that, the core belief in the approacher burns slowly away. We may not reside in total beingness all of the time, but where we are 'at' is generally enough. The path unfolds in the way we often least expect in my opinion. Hey Andrew, I agree with you and have experienced the same things. As we get more comfortable with just being, we actually create a desire to stay in that state. We prefer the stillness, silence and peace over the cacophony of worldly distractions, including the most powerful ones, our 'thoughts'. Part of being true to oneself is constantly asking Why? When a thought arises and it pulls you out of your stillness, ask Why? Do I really need this thought, and if the answer is No, or I don't know, you get the chance to kick it to the side of the road. It's called as you already know, getting rid of the baggage. The more baggage you get rid of, the more space you have to remain in the peacefulness of being. The more light that is allowed to shine. Sometimes though, a person gets rid of some annoying baggage and then hears on some forum how ....everything is an illusion or imaginary, which is ultimately true or maybe it isn't, nobody knows. And the mind loves that, it's got something new to label, to put in a box for an appropriate occasion to pull out and talk about. Heh...the mind of some folks might even believe that those imaginary peeps in the world are all in cahoots and looking at you like the jokes on you. I guess what I'm getting at is that there's no point in getting rid of baggage if a person just fills it up with 'new' baggage, including spiritual baggage. Once a person trusts themselves 100% though, as ZD said, then letting go of the baggage, gets easier and easier, especially when nothing is sacred... Anyway, I like what you have to say, and just musing... Peace |
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Post by ivory on Aug 26, 2011 23:37:45 GMT -5
Umm... Are you serious? I was just joking, but if you think enlightenment is hot babes and wild orgies, then... i dunno. Maybe we should ask ZD and Enigma Guys? Marie says "Don't EVEN go there!" Okay Enigma, thanks for clearing that up. I think I just crawled out of another trap. P.S. Marie, your're a good sport.  |
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Post by enigma on Aug 27, 2011 0:09:07 GMT -5
Marie says "Don't EVEN go there!" Okay Enigma, thanks for clearing that up. I think I just crawled out of another trap. P.S. Marie, your're a good sport. Marie is the 'hot babe' that I instantly and effortlessly attracted the moment I let go of any all needs to attract anything. She's a reflection of the pure Love that shines for both of us in that conspicuous absence. She's my lover, my playmate, my best friend. As long as 'lessons' are needed, relationships of all kinds will fill that need. When none are needed, something quite amazing happens all by itself. |
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Post by acewall on Aug 27, 2011 2:26:57 GMT -5
 Umm... Are you serious? I was just joking, but if you think enlightenment is hot babes and wild orgies, then... i dunno. Maybe we should ask ZD and Enigma Guys? sure, lets ask those two how they hide away from the crowds enlightenment attracts.
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Post by acewall on Aug 27, 2011 2:35:45 GMT -5
Okay Enigma, thanks for clearing that up. I think I just crawled out of another trap. P.S. Marie, your're a good sport. Marie is the 'hot babe' that I instantly and effortlessly attracted the moment I let go of any all needs to attract anything. She's a reflection of the pure Love that shines for both of us in that conspicuous absence. She's my lover, my playmate, my best friend. As long as 'lessons' are needed, relationships of all kinds will fill that need. When none are needed, something quite amazing happens all by itself. I had a similar experiance... No-sooner than i gave-up on women and i decided to simply be and not bother about what I thought I needed in the way of relationship, I found myself doing what I aught to have been doing 20 years sooner. Dont Laugh......Im a slow learner. At one time i had three girls one after another on the same day and it was on that same day that I realised, love really-had walked in the door, several days earlier. It turned out I didnt know what i wanted at all....and i got the real thing. That made me shudder an take notice, something had changed, I was attracting! It stopped me in my gay~abandoning nature and in my free time(which i had to work-to-create) I began to reconsider my earlier~ideas and deal directly with my Fear!Like i say, I was a slow learner but eventually I came right;we married (like as soon as i could) and we are Now the first in Western Australia to have used a Known-Donar to create another family, from the juices of my Second Son, whom we flew-in from New Zealand for the occasion. He was great! His attitude was this.... "You gave me life Dad, so I'l give you Life!" He's a bright Man dont you think?  We have now a Son and a Daughter. These two started their life as frozen~sperm as the Laws in WA were very strict at the time.... We all had to undergo psychology interviews 'at our own expense' before we could be assessed by the Hospital Fertility Board, who doubted we were the real deal!
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Post by andrew on Aug 27, 2011 3:51:32 GMT -5
I think the core belief in an approacher is released long before the actual approaches are released, though to be fair, when the core belief has been released the approaches become very 'moment by moment' approaches. There are still times when I might sit quietly for a while and observe the breath or watch my thoughts. There are times when I cultivate compassion or appreciation. There are times when I might forgive or step into another person's shoes and find some understanding. There are times when I lift my hand in the air like an antennae and allow joy to flow through me. Even aside from this, when I write a shopping list to take to the store with me I am basically taking an approach. Approaches happen. In one way this is kind of a shame because what we want while the deep belief in an approacher is still present is for the approaches to dissolve totally. We think we need total beingness because it seems as if the approaches themselves are stressful, when it really isnt the approaches. In the end, I think we come to make peace with approaches happening and as we do that, the core belief in the approacher burns slowly away. We may not reside in total beingness all of the time, but where we are 'at' is generally enough. The path unfolds in the way we often least expect in my opinion. Hey Andrew, I agree with you and have experienced the same things. As we get more comfortable with just being, we actually create a desire to stay in that state. We prefer the stillness, silence and peace over the cacophony of worldly distractions, including the most powerful ones, our 'thoughts'. Part of being true to oneself is constantly asking Why? When a thought arises and it pulls you out of your stillness, ask Why? Do I really need this thought, and if the answer is No, or I don't know, you get the chance to kick it to the side of the road. It's called as you already know, getting rid of the baggage. The more baggage you get rid of, the more space you have to remain in the peacefulness of being. The more light that is allowed to shine. Sometimes though, a person gets rid of some annoying baggage and then hears on some forum how ....everything is an illusion or imaginary, which is ultimately true or maybe it isn't, nobody knows. And the mind loves that, it's got something new to label, to put in a box for an appropriate occasion to pull out and talk about. Heh...the mind of some folks might even believe that those imaginary peeps in the world are all in cahoots and looking at you like the jokes on you. I guess what I'm getting at is that there's no point in getting rid of baggage if a person just fills it up with 'new' baggage, including spiritual baggage. Once a person trusts themselves 100% though, as ZD said, then letting go of the baggage, gets easier and easier, especially when nothing is sacred... Anyway, I like what you have to say, and just musing... Peace Hi therealflake, I liked what you said here too. I absolutely agree that the last thing we want is to get rid of old baggage and replace it with new baggage, and I think that that trap can be easy to fall into. My path unfolded in such a way that by the time I stumbled across the 'enlightenment' material, I had already released a fair amount of baggage, so I think I was able to see quite clearly some of the potential potholes on the non-dualist trail. Though of course, I might be deluding myself there hehe. Maybe I am totally deluded right now! In the end though, I consider whether or not I am deluded or awake as secondary to the quality of the experience, and one thing Im pretty sure of is that I wouldnt go back to the way things were, even if I could. |
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