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Post by zendancer on Mar 27, 2024 12:24:12 GMT -5
Those are excellent videos, and I plan to suggest to my Christian friends who're interested in ND to watch them.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 9, 2024 18:20:47 GMT -5
This might be true for some people, but not for others. Some of us know why we're here, what we have to do, and how to find answers to any questions that might arise. For people in this category the intellect is a servant rather than a master, and they trust a deeper level of intelligence to take care of everything from circulating blood in the body to making whatever needs to be done simple and obvious. The key to finding peace, freedom, and happiness is escaping the consensus paradigm and discovering that there is no "me" at the center of whatever is happening and that separation is the fundamental illusion. I disagree that you know the answers to those questions, or that you know better than I do, and even your current replies shows these to me. I accept your right to your opinions, and don't expect to change them, nor others'. I honestly believe that you might benefit from doubting your current beliefs, and obviously not adhering to mine, but by putting aside all your truths, and tapping your inner guidance from the pupil position. It is true that I expect you to ignore my suggestion, and I am okay with that. Tapping one's inner guidance is what many of us on this forum are always pointing to, so we're definitely in agreement about that. However, it goes a bit deeper than that because there is no "me" who can "tap into anything" or do anything. It's more like realizing that what one IS is the unified field of all being which is always doing whatever is done. The issue is how to stop imagining separateness so that the organism can respond to whatever's happening spontaneously and effortlessly. The problem for most people is that they think they're separate things living in a world composed of separate things who need to control or direct what's happening, and that's the basic illusion that creates suffering.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 9, 2024 9:25:08 GMT -5
The guy was personable, and seemed to believe what he was preaching. But, likely, he is misguided ... on several levels, including health / lack-of-pain. But, this is our general situation: we don't know why we are here, we don't know what we have to do, we don't know how to find useful answers to those questions, and there are a lot of unbeneficial influences. The point of the video was that the human body is not built for a sedentary life style. So there's a much simpler explanation. And this is where your belief-based approach is misguided. This is also where a scientific, study-based approach is misguided (you can 'prove' either side of the argument with 'studies'). This isn't to say that beliefs do not play a role, they certainly do, but beliefs are only one piece of the puzzle. Also, you put too much trust into knowledge. The body has an intelligence of its own, and it's the same intelligence that created this universe. And left to itself, the body will guide your to the right behavior, it will tell you which way to sit right, which way to move, what to eat and when etc. etc. We don't need to know any of that on an intellectual or even conscious level, as the examples of children have shown in the video. So true!
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Post by zendancer on Mar 9, 2024 9:24:00 GMT -5
The guy was personable, and seemed to believe what he was preaching. But, likely, he is misguided ... on several levels, including health / lack-of-pain. But, this is our general situation: we don't know why we are here, we don't know what we have to do, we don't know how to find useful answers to those questions, and there are a lot of unbeneficial influences. This might be true for some people, but not for others. Some of us know why we're here, what we have to do, and how to find answers to any questions that might arise. For people in this category the intellect is a servant rather than a master, and they trust a deeper level of intelligence to take care of everything from circulating blood in the body to making whatever needs to be done simple and obvious. The key to finding peace, freedom, and happiness is escaping the consensus paradigm and discovering that there is no "me" at the center of whatever is happening and that separation is the fundamental illusion.
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Love
Mar 1, 2024 11:20:19 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Mar 1, 2024 11:20:19 GMT -5
Everything he wrote there seems on target to me. The kind of love E points to is what the Greeks called "agape" and is unconditional. Someone who loves another in that sense only wants the other to be happy, even if the other chooses to leave the relationship.
Byron Katie was once asked how she would feel if her husband became interested in someone else. Her response, in essence, was, "If he pulled away, there would be acceptance of that. I would not want him to stay with me if he wanted to be with someone else. I would still love him, but we would no longer be together. True love is wanting the best for each other whether together or apart." That's not an exact quote, but it coveys the sense of what she was pointing to.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 15, 2024 7:43:42 GMT -5
Yes, the hubris of humans is rather amazing. No one can explain how a single hair grows, yet people think AI can somehow replicate sentience. Too funny. If sentience, or consciousness, is mysterious, then how can you say anything beyond "I don't know" to the question of whether some entity is conscious or sentient? Do you "know" for sure that humans will never create a system that is ... like a human? I agree that some of the technical people seem oblivious and full of hubris. But is it also hubris to think you know for sure in the other direction? Ie, that it cannot happen? A particular realization makes this obvious. It happened to Federico Fa grin as he contemplated how to design a sentient computer, but it can happen as a result of contemplating many other existential questions. People look at two trees, but never realize that the space between the two trees is also what the trees ARE and is also what is looking at the trees. As Pope wrote, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Drink deep or taste not the Pierian Spring." The intelligence of THIS is incomprehensible to the intellect, but the intellect can be informed of that incomprehensibility by a realization of what lies beyond the capacity of the intellect.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 13, 2024 9:39:47 GMT -5
Recently I've been listening to some talks and interviews with Michael Mckibben (founder of Leader Technologies) whose view on A.I. pretty much dovetails with my own version which contradicts the officially promoted dystopian version of A.I. that is a threat to humanity and is going to replace humans. He basically says that there is no such thing as artificial intelligence. And all those issues with so-called A.I. that haven been envisioned dystopian movies are all solvable because they are nothing else but engineering problems. Another key point re A.I replacing humans is that A.I. is just mimicking the nervous system. Any thoughts? I remember Being with Ian Wolstenholme Barry Long and my friends wife gave birth to izza a bundle of joy and she said enough talk about stillness look after her. It was the first time I felt vulnerable yet I looked into her eyes and I could see all her cells were vulnerable alive.Her eyes were innocent like mine. A deep lake . There was this non verbal communication but it was so present alive. And i I felt her beyond all my teachings all the stillness I know Her heart is alive just like my heart. Yes, the hubris of humans is rather amazing. No one can explain how a single hair grows, yet people think AI can somehow replicate sentience. Too funny.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 12, 2024 19:15:49 GMT -5
Didn't write that. I can walk you through some stick-figure elements of a consciousness simulation, if you'd like. I'm sure today's labs have far more sophisticated models than what I'd write though. Yes, I jumped to an assumption about your meaning. My bad. You wrote: "People who blur the distinction between artificial and human intelligence miss something very important, no doubt." What is the "very important" thing that they miss? I assumed you were saying there was something special about the "human" intelligence that could not come from an "artificial" intelligence, and thus, AGI would not happen. You might find Federico Fa ggin's (I had to split his name due to this crazy website's obscenity filter) comments about this issue interesting ("consciousness is vaster than space and time"). His breakthrough realization occurred while contemplating the issue of how to create a sentient computer. If you google his name, I think the appropriate videos and comments will appear.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 9, 2024 18:58:46 GMT -5
Well it's about intention isn't it. So if one was in a state of being that is embracing and encompassing a pure loving blissful state then there wouldn't be the intention to hurt another even if other's feel hurt by something said or done. So your actions DO reflect your state of being, you kant separate them. I know it's the weekend when Tenka shows up. Better than a calendar!
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Post by zendancer on Feb 8, 2024 10:58:25 GMT -5
From the other thread... what are you trusting in? What would you say happens with the rational thinking mind, in this trust/surrender? To some degree at least, the answer is in the thread title, and I'd say it answers the questions completely. Agreed. It's pretty simple. If the intellect becomes a servant rather than a master (master=machine of deception created by cultural conditioning and habits of thought), and if there has been sufficient realization (which informs the intellect), then the body/mind organism functions spontaneously and appropriately without needing to reflect about what's happening. Full adult intellectual capability remains, of course, but the individual knows that there is no boundary between the body and the most distant star. There is a felt sense of being one with reality (in the flow) rather than being a separate volitional entity living in a world of separately-existing objects. I enjoy asking people, "When you inhale, when does the air you inhale become "you?" Those with sufficient insight know that the air is, to use Tenka's phrase somewhat modified, "what they actually already are." What we are is reality looking at Itself from a unique perspective. The same undivided field of reality is also looking at Itself through the eyes of every other creature because there is only one thingless thing here.
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Post by zendancer on Feb 1, 2024 13:11:16 GMT -5
.... If we accept Enigma's definition that "beliefs are strong attachments to ideas," then many of us do not have beliefs and have no interest in beliefs. Everything that happens is sort of "in one's face," down to earth, and quite matter of fact. This isn't good or bad; it's just a difference in the way different people respond to different life events. Redefining words creates confusion. This is the dictionary definition: link- belief /bĭ-lēf′/
noun
The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another. "My belief in you is as strong as ever."
Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something. "His explanation of what happened defies belief."
Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.
Assent to a proposition or affirmation, or the acceptance of a fact, opinion, or assertion as real or true, without immediate personal knowledge; reliance upon word or testimony; partial or full assurance without positive knowledge or absolute certainty; persuasion; conviction; confidence. "belief of a witness; the belief of our senses" Similar: persuasion conviction confidence
A persuasion of the truths of religion; faith. Similar: faith
The thing believed; the object of belief.
A tenet, or the body of tenets, held by the advocates of any class of views; doctrine; creed. Similar: doctrine creed
A first principle incapable of proof; an intuitive truth; an intuition.
Mental acceptance of a claim as truth regardless of supporting or contrary empirical evidence.
It's understandable that people will disagree about definitions, and that topic has been discussed exhaustively on this forum. Many of us subscribe to the Zen outlook which disclaims any doctrine and points to a "transmission outside of the scriptures and outside of the mind." From this POV there are no tenets, beliefs, or doctrines that apply. The truth must be "grokked" directly, and the truth being pointed to is beyond conception but can be apprehended directly. You'll never hear a ND sage say, "This is what you must believe" or "this is what we believe." A ND sage will, however, say, "Each human must investigate the nature of reality for him/herself and find what lies beyond the concensus paradigm of separation." It's more a matter of discovering and directly knowing that THIS is infinite and undivided rather than believing anything. Although I think Enigma's definition of what a belief is is spot on, others will disagree.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 31, 2024 17:53:50 GMT -5
Almost never, but one should never say "never ever" because what may happen next is unknowable. I've gotten angry once or twice in the past at concrete truck drivers who nearly killed us in hot weather by pouring concrete too fast or too dry and didn't seem to appreciate how much they were making us workers struggle despite being told several times to "slow down" or "add some water." I understood that the drivers were either mentally detached from what they were doing, had no experience, or didn't care, but whether we want to call our attitude at that time "extreme irritation" or "anger" is anybody's call. Other than incidents with concrete truck drivers the only other thing that I can remember that generates extreme irritation is when someone pushes an idea or expectation that is clearly absurd or illogical. At a certain point one just doesn't want to listen to nonsense, and the usual response is to simply walk away. The main point is that when this happens without self-referential reflection, it isn't the same as when there is a sense of a "me" being offended by something. When there's no self-referential reflection, the response to any activity is empty. A small irritation caused by the hot weather and hard work, untended, selected from the endless possible situations the one that amplified into anger directed on external, apparently beyond your control, factors. That was a lesson to interpret, and draw guidance: pay attention to your emotions, tend to them timely. Surely, the deeper lesson is to identify the belief that caused the small irritation, then the anger. One such belief was that your experience was determined by uncontrollable factors, that may have even been guilty of negligence, careless and such. Identifying and removing / replacing such belief is the next step in your growth Same in the case of "clearly absurd or illogical", "nonsense" observed at others. That starts by generating irritation, adds to your past such experience, and when you don't address it timely, causes you extreme irritation. Again, that should be a lesson you interpret and draw guidance from, including identifying your limiting belief that caused the incident, and discarding it. I understand what you're saying in this regard, but what I'm usually pointing to is something Zen Masters mean when they say, "Put it all down." They mean "detach from all of your ideas, realize non-conceptually what's going on, and proceed to live spontaneously, intuitively, and non-reflectively." If the intellect becomes quiescent, and there is no self-referential thinking, the body/mind organism will continue to act intelligently and appropriately in response to whatever situation arises. If one watches a sad movie, tears spontaneously fall. If a traffic light changes to green and the car at the head of the line doesn't move because the driver is texting, honk a horn to bring the driver's attention back to what's happening beyond his/her I-phone. If a concrete truck driver is pouring concrete so fast that it can't be handled, the workers yell for him to slow down the delivery, add water, or do whatever else is necessary from their POV. As Andrew pointed out, each human is unique and personalities and proclivities differ. This character walks fast, drives fast, and works fast in relation to most people. I have a high tolerance for risk and enjoy adventurous activities. My father was the same way. He talked so fast that people had a hard time understanding him. He walked so fast that most people had to run to keep up with him. He typed so fast that he gave up on secretaries and did all of his own typing because they were all too slow. Because I was curious about what it would be like to interact with the world non-conceptually, I pursued meditative activities that led to significant mental silence. When the mind does not reflect about what's going on, life becomes simple, direct, and spontaneous. Some people on the forum understand exactly what this means, and some don't. That's just the nature of reality, human variability, life experiences, cultural conditioning, and habits of mind. If we accept Enigma's definition that "beliefs are strong attachments to ideas," then many of us do not have beliefs and have no interest in beliefs. Everything that happens is sort of "in one's face," down to earth, and quite matter of fact. This isn't good or bad; it's just a difference in the way different people respond to different life events.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 31, 2024 14:03:29 GMT -5
"Most" is correct, but not "all". For twenty years I thought I was on a scientific quest to understand the nature of reality, but a CC showed me that the quest had been spiritual in nature rather than scientific. Directly apprehending the Infinite changes one's outlook completely. This does raise an interesting issue that Grandma/Reefs has speculated about in the past. He and I have both noticed that people who have "attained" ONLY SR, do not express the same feeling of reverence, humility, gratitude, and awe that people express who have attained SR and ALSO had a deep kensho/CC. CC's are not necessary for SR, but they can change one's understanding and appreciation of the vastness and incomprehensibility of THIS. Someone claims to have "attained SR" and yet lacks humility, gratitude, awe, reverence? The likely explanation is that they are a spiritual poser and a fraud. If you're unaware of human psychology, you might not be aware of all the spiritual posers in the world, and the motive they have to lie to themselves and others. The phenomenon ranges from mild and temporary (as when a student can mature past a partial realization), to extreme and permanent. Yes, I suspect many people interested in ND understand this issue and would agree with most of those points, but I have met people who have clearly discovered that THIS is all there is, and that the usual sense of selfhood is an illusion, but who have never felt the same sort of wonderment, awe, worshipfulness or devotion/reverence that a kensho fosters. SR is a subtle and profound shift in perspective, but a CC is often far more powerful in its effect, and a CC can result in numerous other realizations regarding the profundity of THIS.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 31, 2024 12:43:39 GMT -5
Most of spirituality is an abstract mind-made virtual reality, overlaid on actual life. As such, spirituality is unnecessary. Many people are attached to this meta reality, because it gives them a sense of being special, something "beyond" an "ordinary" life. But that need to feel special comes from a compensation for underlying fear. Drop it all and be free. "Most" is correct, but not "all". For twenty years I thought I was on a scientific quest to understand the nature of reality, but a CC showed me that the quest had been spiritual in nature rather than scientific. Directly apprehending the Infinite changes one's outlook completely. This does raise an interesting issue that Grandma/Reefs has speculated about in the past. He and I have both noticed that people who have "attained" ONLY SR, do not express the same feeling of reverence, humility, gratitude, and awe that people express who have attained SR and ALSO had a deep kensho/CC. CC's are not necessary for SR, but they can change one's understanding and appreciation of the vastness and incomprehensibility of THIS.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 31, 2024 12:32:50 GMT -5
Almost never, but one should never say "never ever" because what may happen next is unknowable. I've gotten angry once or twice in the past at concrete truck drivers who nearly killed us in hot weather by pouring concrete too fast or too dry and didn't seem to appreciate how much they were making us workers struggle despite being told several times to "slow down" or "add some water." I understood that the drivers were either mentally detached from what they were doing, had no experience, or didn't care, but whether we want to call our attitude at that time "extreme irritation" or "anger" is anybody's call. Other than incidents with concrete truck drivers the only other thing that I can remember that generates extreme irritation is when someone pushes an idea or expectation that is clearly absurd or illogical. At a certain point one just doesn't want to listen to nonsense, and the usual response is to simply walk away. The main point is that when this happens without self-referential reflection, it isn't the same as when there is a sense of a "me" being offended by something. When there's no self-referential reflection, the response to any activity is empty. Hate would have been a better word to say should never arise Yes, or "rage," which indicates that one is attached to the anger or that one cannot detach from ideas about whatever happened. If a young child of a sage expresses anger, it usually disappears within minutes rather than hanging around. Extreme irritation or anger is a spontaneous response, and virtually every well-known ND teacher occasionally expresses it. Disgust is another common response that falls into the same category as irritation or anger. Krishnamurti, Papaji, Niz, UG, Ramana, et al have all expressed disgust at the actions of various seekers. If G's logic about this issue was consistent, then disgust would be as impossible as anger, and there are countless videos that show that's not the case.
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