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Post by lopezcabellero on Nov 29, 2019 10:47:40 GMT -5
Sure. All kinds of creative stuff can be done without conscious thought. Conscious thought is highly over-rated. I don't think it matters if there is thought, or no thought. but society couldn't wait for some non conscious thinker to create the power grid so we put some of our best thinkers on that temporary project Yea an anti thought mentality is often just a split mind identified as a thought controller. Think when you want to. Don’t think when you don’t want to. ( which is what’s going on already anyway ) If you’re thinking and don’t want to be, that’s inner division, or an underlying emotional issue. That’s when meditation practices start, to get rid of unwanted emotions, which never works, but does create a side effect and the enlightened ego issue, which can last a lifetime apparently.
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Post by lopezcabellero on Nov 29, 2019 11:01:22 GMT -5
I don't think it matters if there is thought, or no thought. but society couldn't wait for some non conscious thinker to create the power grid so we put some of our best thinkers on that temporary project Not that I'm a fan of Tolle or that I am not, indifference, but he had an interesting take on the question of creativity and nonduality. I believe it was some conference regarding creativity, lots of big big heads, famous ones, including Tolle, maybe Laughy too. Tolle said while watching World Cup penalty kicks he noted players who paused before they kicked were generally more successful. He surmised they tapped into something deep, prior to thought. And not to discount presence or putting all your attention in what you’re doing. If you can get lost in an activity your results or output will be more efficient than when you’re daydreaming or worried about what happened yesterday. But excessive worry or inability to concentrate result from minds emotional management strategies, that obviously don’t work because they are an expression of self avoidance and thus create a projected sense of division. Not thinking isn’t going to cure that dysfunction. Becoming conscious will. On the flip side, the more conscious you are the more in harmony with universal intelligence you will be. Your desires won’t be an expression of seeking or avoidance and so when you need something a wave of synchronicity will allow it to arrive, not because a desire was forced in to the matrix, but rather discovered through interaction with it.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 29, 2019 11:07:26 GMT -5
Are you aware that you're creating enemies out of thin air or did you come to this forum to have yourself show you it? i'm aware that you've established yourself as my enemy. No, you can't establish that. "When a pickpocket bumps into a Priest, all he sees are his pockets". (Also going to enter the dialogue of Gopal and SCA. Gopal is locked into an epistemological position, which is really difficult to break out of. It's a feedback looping house of mirrors).
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2019 13:02:29 GMT -5
I don't think it matters if there is thought, or no thought. but society couldn't wait for some non conscious thinker to create the power grid so we put some of our best thinkers on that temporary project Yea an anti thought mentality is often just a split mind identified as a thought controller. Think when you want to. Don’t think when you don’t want to. ( which is what’s going on already anyway ) If you’re thinking and don’t want to be, that’s inner division, or an underlying emotional issue. That’s when meditation practices start, to get rid of unwanted emotions, which never works, but does create a side effect and the enlightened ego issue, which can last a lifetime apparently. Tolle's question about "have you found the off switch?" was one that I found a non-issue when I first read it. I'd never considered thought to be a problem, but I guess some people sometimes do. In retrospect, I can see that insomnia was related to the issue. But the flip side is that I wasn't conscious of a sense of identity that had at it's foundation a baseline mental/emotional inner-tension. It is the complete and utter absence of that - which can be temporary, or it can be permanent - that rezzes with me in all the discussions about being able to "stop thinking". It's not the cessation of thought that matters, it's the cessation of identifying with the false, which happens mostly unconsciously. The endless stream of thought and emotion is just a byproduct. Beyond that, some people with no reference for it can mistake the descriptions for a blanked-out state of mind - some with a positive outlook, some negative. Still others have deep experiential points of reference for it in terms of surrendered action, but object to the implications of the falseness of the "little-me".
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2019 13:03:05 GMT -5
"Ramana stayed in deep samadhi so long that he told someone after he began speaking to people that it was as hard for him to think a thought as it was for most people not to think a thought." Yes, there seems to be a tipping point where thought free Awareness becomes effortless/the natural state, and thought requires effort/becomes unnatural. Such a state could be described as a preference, but this kind of language gets the nondual police's lights flashing. Are you aware that you're creating enemies out of thin air or did you come to this forum to have yourself show you it? You could be water then, instead of clay.
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Post by zendancer on Nov 29, 2019 13:27:35 GMT -5
Yea an anti thought mentality is often just a split mind identified as a thought controller. Think when you want to. Don’t think when you don’t want to. ( which is what’s going on already anyway ) If you’re thinking and don’t want to be, that’s inner division, or an underlying emotional issue. That’s when meditation practices start, to get rid of unwanted emotions, which never works, but does create a side effect and the enlightened ego issue, which can last a lifetime apparently. Tolle's question about "have you found the off switch?" was one that I found a non-issue when I first read it. I'd never considered thought to be a problem, but I guess some people sometimes do. In retrospect, I can see that insomnia was related to the issue. But the flip side is that I wasn't conscious of a sense of identity that had at it's foundation a baseline mental/emotional inner-tension. It is the complete and utter absence of that - which can be temporary, or it can be permanent - that rezzes with me in all the discussions about being able to "stop thinking". It's not the cessation of thought that matters, it's the cessation of identifying with the false, which happens mostly unconsciously. The endless stream of thought and emotion is just a byproduct. Beyond that, some people with no reference for it can mistake the descriptions for a blanked-out state of mind - some with a positive outlook, some negative. Still others have deep experiential points of reference for it in terms of surrendered action, but object to the implications of the falseness of the "little-me". Yes, some people will rezz with Tolle's question, and some will not. One seemingly crazy thought stopped his mind and catapulted him into a world where all of his problems disappeared. Some people will believe that he accurately described what happened to him, and some will not. One size does not fit all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 13:51:01 GMT -5
Are you aware that you're creating enemies out of thin air or did you come to this forum to have yourself show you it? i'm aware that you've established yourself as my enemy. If you take it personally, she's achieved her goal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 14:38:45 GMT -5
Not that I'm a fan of Tolle or that I am not, indifference, but he had an interesting take on the question of creativity and nonduality. I believe it was some conference regarding creativity, lots of big big heads, famous ones, including Tolle, maybe Laughy too. Tolle said while watching World Cup penalty kicks he noted players who paused before they kicked were generally more successful. He surmised they tapped into something deep, prior to thought. And not to discount presence or putting all your attention in what you’re doing. If you can get lost in an activity your results or output will be more efficient than when you’re daydreaming or worried about what happened yesterday. But excessive worry or inability to concentrate result from minds emotional management strategies, that obviously don’t work because they are an expression of self avoidance and thus create a projected sense of division. Not thinking isn’t going to cure that dysfunction. Becoming conscious will. On the flip side, the more conscious you are the more in harmony with universal intelligence you will be. Your desires won’t be an expression of seeking or avoidance and so when you need something a wave of synchronicity will allow it to arrive, not because a desire was forced in to the matrix, but rather discovered through interaction with it.Yeah, that's an inclusive way of understanding it. These kinds of needs have an inevitability within them. There is a physical response felt, when such needs arise that is akin to excitement and a magnetic pull in the plexus let's the mind know that these needs are a given. Upon the arrival of these needs, a ripple of appreciation and a lowering of the brow in honour of the perfection behind these happenings, are equally enjoyable.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 18:19:42 GMT -5
i'm aware that you've established yourself as my enemy. If you take it personally, she's achieved her goal. I don't actually have a goal, I just find it humorous that a man that wants to eliminate the whole of humanity within twenty years, can so easily be triggered by a non-agreement with his ideas.
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2019 18:32:52 GMT -5
If you take it personally, she's achieved her goal. I don't actually have a goal, I just find it humorous that a man that wants to eliminate the whole of humanity within twenty years, can so easily be triggered by a non-agreement with his ideas. But, isn't there a difference between predicting that end and wanting it to happen?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 29, 2019 18:59:44 GMT -5
I don't actually have a goal, I just find it humorous that a man that wants to eliminate the whole of humanity within twenty years, can so easily be triggered by a non-agreement with his ideas. But, isn't there a difference between predicting that end and wanting it to happen? The two are almost invariably connected. "We see not as things are, but as we are". It's very related to projection. As far as I can tell, roy has zero [real actual] basis for his prediction.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 19:00:22 GMT -5
I don't actually have a goal, I just find it humorous that a man that wants to eliminate the whole of humanity within twenty years, can so easily be triggered by a non-agreement with his ideas. But, isn't there a difference between predicting that end and wanting it to happen? Of course there's a difference. Those that predict are open to the possibility that their ideas can only ever be loosely fitting. Wanting has a energy behind it that is embroiled with conviction. Does it really matter if we go extinct in 1 decade or 2? Regardless, this is "my" final life as a human. And pretty much everyone else's.
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Post by laughter on Nov 30, 2019 4:55:47 GMT -5
Tolle's question about "have you found the off switch?" was one that I found a non-issue when I first read it. I'd never considered thought to be a problem, but I guess some people sometimes do. In retrospect, I can see that insomnia was related to the issue. But the flip side is that I wasn't conscious of a sense of identity that had at it's foundation a baseline mental/emotional inner-tension. It is the complete and utter absence of that - which can be temporary, or it can be permanent - that rezzes with me in all the discussions about being able to "stop thinking". It's not the cessation of thought that matters, it's the cessation of identifying with the false, which happens mostly unconsciously. The endless stream of thought and emotion is just a byproduct. Beyond that, some people with no reference for it can mistake the descriptions for a blanked-out state of mind - some with a positive outlook, some negative. Still others have deep experiential points of reference for it in terms of surrendered action, but object to the implications of the falseness of the "little-me". Yes, some people will rezz with Tolle's question, and some will not. One seemingly crazy thought stopped his mind and catapulted him into a world where all of his problems disappeared. Some people will believe that he accurately described what happened to him, and some will not. One size does not fit all. In an instant, he realized an internal schism. "Am I one, or two? If I cannot live with myself any longer, there must be two of me: the 'I' and the 'self' that 'I' cannot live with". It's never not the same question, the existential question: "why can't I stop thinking?", "what is it that will stop this constant thinking?", "what is the source of thought?". I didn't know that most people can't stop thinking at will, and, of course, I understand what you mean by that. Often people will object to the advice to meditate or ATA or something similar by pointing out that this advice is suggesting to the person that they have control over something they really don't. As you say, one size does not fit all. Some people, like Tolle, will realize the end of the mind-split in an instant by some sort of catalyst, like, in his case, extreme psychological suffering. Other's might encounter this same realization correlated to any number of different ways to arrive at a quiescent body/mind. Now, the observations of the people who object to the advice to meditate, are not wrong, it's just, that's not the whole story, and it's a story that doesn't have a formula for an ending.
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Post by laughter on Nov 30, 2019 5:04:46 GMT -5
But, isn't there a difference between predicting that end and wanting it to happen? The two are almost invariably connected. "We see not as things are, but as we are". It's very related to projection. As far as I can tell, roy has zero [real actual] basis for his prediction. In terms of a person in the world, people will have varying degrees of objectivity about what they perceive. In terms of nondual totality, there is no "things as they are", nor is there an "as we are". In either event, projection is far from a foregone conclusion, and I'd dare characterize the absence of it in terms of simple sanity.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 5:17:16 GMT -5
The two are almost invariably connected. "We see not as things are, but as we are". It's very related to projection. As far as I can tell, roy has zero [real actual] basis for his prediction. In terms of a person in the world, people will have varying degrees of objectivity about what they perceive. In terms of nondual totality, there is no "things as they are", nor is there an "as we are". In either event, projection is far from a foregone conclusion, and I'd dare characterize the absence of it in terms of simple sanity. So how come a human consciousness is being found then? And then because it's been found it must then be made extinct.
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