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Post by laughter on Oct 12, 2017 5:32:12 GMT -5
Please forgive me if I've misunderstood, but you seem to have implied that there would be no war if everyone ate the same foods and that the only babies that are killed by adults are the bad babies that would have done evil when they got older. Do I have that right? Right, and if everybody ate cows, there would be no milk for the babies left that do deserve to live. As I say, it's complicated. Only the fool on the hill tries to define what's sacred in terms of saints and sinners. This reminds me of anjaQ. And several others. While conscious of my own projections it's a pattern that's happened here lots of times. The sharp wit, the educated and adept intellect, the seemingly aggressively purposeful distortions of nonduality, ala D.G.. Like prec' said, talk of salvation is never really wasted breath. On the other hand, I've both experienced and witnessed existential debate shifting perspective and informing mind on these forums. In some cases though, all it does is harden the silo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 6:24:33 GMT -5
well, in a way, I guess there is some truth to it... when you consider that whole "THAT which you really are is untouched by birth or death" dealio people peeps hear what they want to hear in that.
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Post by krsnaraja on Oct 12, 2017 8:28:44 GMT -5
Okay, guys and girls. Here is my observation. When a dualist and non-dualist talk without reservation, the outcome is remarkable. But when a non-dualist talk with each other is boring. Same thing with dualists. There is an analogy to this. The meeting of a man and woman. The attraction is explosive. Love is generated from the interaction. The two become one and bingo! A baby is produced. There is progress. In other words, non-dualist and dualist need each other like a hole in the head.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 11:19:29 GMT -5
Non-dualists have come to understand deeply what God is not. If in your perception that makes them atheists, that's fine. The seahorse has arrived at her destination.
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Post by zin on Oct 12, 2017 17:39:31 GMT -5
Ok. So does this me that wants to carry on existing, want to do anything more than existing? IOW.. Is existing sufficient? you can't measure existence Maybe one can measure 'being'. I had heard a definition: it is what you can bear (by Mme Ouspensky). I thought about why I am interested in 'afterlife'.. It is mostly related to this, seeing the quality of being. While 'living' there is so much noise, too many troubles, for me! I can't see anything clearly. Also I can't see my life as a whole yet. I know it is not a nondual approach, but it is one reason anyway.
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Post by zin on Oct 12, 2017 17:42:38 GMT -5
I read non-dualists perceive God as cosmos. In the Vedic scriptures, non-dualists are said to have merged themselves with Brahman's effulgence. Non-dualists do not believe Christ/Krsna is God. Non-dualists are impersonalists. They rather become non-specific than specific. They think nothing is it. That something is only an illusion? Well, don't believe everything ya' read. If you're really interested I'll put on a nondualist-costume and offer a different perspective. K didn't comment on this offer : ) But I am interested. Say whatever you can say on god and also on individuality please!
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Post by laughter on Oct 13, 2017 1:19:15 GMT -5
people peeps hear what they want to hear in that.
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Post by laughter on Oct 13, 2017 1:20:27 GMT -5
The seahorse has arrived at her destination. That could mean alot of different things .. so tattoo guy needs the q-tip to help remove the ink??
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Post by laughter on Oct 13, 2017 1:28:46 GMT -5
Well, don't believe everything ya' read. If you're really interested I'll put on a nondualist-costume and offer a different perspective. K didn't comment on this offer : ) But I am interested. Say whatever you can say on god and also on individuality please! God expresses in every sound, scent and sensation, always speaking to us, always embracing us. God is in the birdsong, the glinting eyes of a cat, and the sucking feel of the mud that pulls down on our shoes at the shoreline. When I was young, I mostly took God for granted when I wasn't scoffing at the misconceived personifications of a judgmental, vindictive father figure. But even those misconceptions have a hint of truth in them about our individuality. The old religions can seem to sometimes put God on high, above and apart from us. This can be deceptive, but at least it puts people on notice of something greater than what most mistake their reality to be. We are each at the center of our sensory perspective. We see and hear relative to where our eyes and ears are and what they have the physical capacity to perceive. It's as natural as rain for us to feel the floor beneath our feet as what it appears to be, and not bother ourselves with the entirety of the planet simultaneously both constantly pulling at us even as it ever supports our bodies against the void. We think of our story as individuals in terms of our birth to our families, but have you ever considered the relative enormity of human history and how completely dependent the story of your family is on that? In those moments when I stood in awe at the night sky or in contemplation at the billions of years that have shaped our world I wasn't taking God for granted. In those moments my mind was silent, my heart was unburdened, and it didn't matter what my thoughts or feelings about God were, no matter how beknigted or rebellious. The old religions also give us reverence and prayer. While the focal point of this devotion is sometimes distorted and hijacked for the purposes of people who would seek to gain from control of that focus, the offer to worship is another shadow of the existential truth. In that silent awe one can become on notice of what the old scriptures mean by God's love. Looking out at the apparent desolation of most of our solar system in contrast to the blue and white riot of Earth's sky as seen from above, one can get a visceral sense for what is meant by that love. How lucky are we to have formed from the atoms that just happened to have found themselves a part of this blessed sphere? Is the fact of this moment by accident, or by design? We all carry God within us and each has the privilege of considering this existential question, which might be framed as, what is our relationship to God? If we use our intellects gently but doggedly, and with respect for what is seen, the mind can notice how interconnected we all are and everything is. If we open our hearts and suspend our passions we might come to feel that interconnectedness, and become present to God's love, as God is always calling to us, in every instant. If we listen to this call we might come to realize something quite profound about our point of unique perspective. The absence of separation of that perspective from what it's on can be realized. The nature of the appearances of the limitations that make up that sensory experience can be known for what they are. After that, God's mystery begins to take on a whole other hue.
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Post by krsnaraja on Oct 13, 2017 2:39:41 GMT -5
K didn't comment on this offer : ) But I am interested. Say whatever you can say on god and also on individuality please! God expresses in every sound, scent and sensation, always speaking to us, always embracing us. God is in the birdsong, the glinting eyes of a cat, and the sucking feel of the mud that pulls down on our shoes at the shoreline. When I was young, I mostly took God for granted when I wasn't scoffing at the misconceived personifications of a judgmental, vindictive father figure. But even those misconceptions have a hint of truth in them about our individuality. The old religions can seem to sometimes put God on high, above and apart from us. This can be deceptive, but at least it puts people on notice of something greater than what most mistake their reality to be. We are each at the center of our sensory perspective. We see and hear relative to where our eyes and ears are and what they have the physical capacity to perceive. It's as natural as rain for us to feel the floor beneath our feet as what it appears to be, and not bother ourselves with the entirety of the planet simultaneously both constantly pulling at us even as it ever supports our bodies against the void. We think of our story as individuals in terms of our birth to our families, but have you ever considered the relative enormity of human history and how completely dependent the story of your family is on that? In those moments when I stood in awe at the night sky or in contemplation at the billions of years that have shaped our world I wasn't taking God for granted. In those moments my mind was silent, my heart was unburdened, and it didn't matter what my thoughts or feelings about God were, no matter how beknigted or rebellious. The old religions also give us reverence and prayer. While the focal point of this devotion is sometimes distorted and hijacked for the purposes of people who would seek to gain from control of that focus, the offer to worship is another shadow of the existential truth. In that silent awe one can become on notice of what the old scriptures mean by God's love. Looking out at the apparent desolation of most of our solar system in contrast to the blue and white riot of Earth's sky as seen from above, one can get a visceral sense for what is meant by that love. How lucky are we to have formed from the atoms that just happened to have found themselves a part of this blessed sphere? Is the fact of this moment by accident, or by design? We all carry God within us and each has the privilege of considering this existential question, which might be framed as, what is our relationship to God? If we use our intellects gently but doggedly, and with respect for what is seen, the mind can notice how interconnected we all are and everything is. If we open our hearts and suspend our passions we might come to feel that interconnectedness, and become present to God's love, as God is always calling to us, in every instant. If we listen to this call we might come to realize something quite profound about our point of unique perspective. The absence of separation of that perspective from what it's on can be realized. The nature of the appearances of the limitations that make up that sensory experience can be known for what they are. After that, God's mystery begins to take on a whole other hue. God is present in the hearts of every living entity as the superself paramatma and from without as the time factor says the Vedic scriptures. He is directing the wanderings of self as the atma present side by side with the superself paramatma in the heart. The paramatma is located in the Sino-atrial node. It is that pulsating, rhytmic impulse that sends electricity to the Atrio-ventricular node where the atma lies. It said that once you pull the plug so to speak the paramatma the Sino-atrial node stops to pulsate the Ventriocular node also stops and the heart dies. It is not death for the human being if his brain dies, the body continues to live if the heart continues to beat. The heart and human body dies if the paramatma leaves the heart and takes away with it the atma. The paramatma and atma is the localized expansions of the Supreme Personality of God. He has unlimited names foremost of which is Vishnu/Krsna. He is the Cause of all causes. Through God's external energy Maya, the material manifestation appeared. In that manifestation are material bodies, the 1,800,000 species of life. These life forms which acquired material elements became animated because of the paramatma and atma. The paramatma although detached from the atma can influence the atma to love or kill another life form. Who can question the personal God if he does something whatever to anybody through the agency of Maya or nature?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 3:01:13 GMT -5
That could mean alot of different things .. so tattoo guy needs the q-tip to help remove the ink?? City streets have their own name for perfection.
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Post by zendancer on Oct 13, 2017 5:38:30 GMT -5
God expresses in every sound, scent and sensation, always speaking to us, always embracing us. God is in the birdsong, the glinting eyes of a cat, and the sucking feel of the mud that pulls down on our shoes at the shoreline. When I was young, I mostly took God for granted when I wasn't scoffing at the misconceived personifications of a judgmental, vindictive father figure. But even those misconceptions have a hint of truth in them about our individuality. The old religions can seem to sometimes put God on high, above and apart from us. This can be deceptive, but at least it puts people on notice of something greater than what most mistake their reality to be. We are each at the center of our sensory perspective. We see and hear relative to where our eyes and ears are and what they have the physical capacity to perceive. It's as natural as rain for us to feel the floor beneath our feet as what it appears to be, and not bother ourselves with the entirety of the planet simultaneously both constantly pulling at us even as it ever supports our bodies against the void. We think of our story as individuals in terms of our birth to our families, but have you ever considered the relative enormity of human history and how completely dependent the story of your family is on that? In those moments when I stood in awe at the night sky or in contemplation at the billions of years that have shaped our world I wasn't taking God for granted. In those moments my mind was silent, my heart was unburdened, and it didn't matter what my thoughts or feelings about God were, no matter how beknigted or rebellious. The old religions also give us reverence and prayer. While the focal point of this devotion is sometimes distorted and hijacked for the purposes of people who would seek to gain from control of that focus, the offer to worship is another shadow of the existential truth. In that silent awe one can become on notice of what the old scriptures mean by God's love. Looking out at the apparent desolation of most of our solar system in contrast to the blue and white riot of Earth's sky as seen from above, one can get a visceral sense for what is meant by that love. How lucky are we to have formed from the atoms that just happened to have found themselves a part of this blessed sphere? Is the fact of this moment by accident, or by design? We all carry God within us and each has the privilege of considering this existential question, which might be framed as, what is our relationship to God? If we use our intellects gently but doggedly, and with respect for what is seen, the mind can notice how interconnected we all are and everything is. If we open our hearts and suspend our passions we might come to feel that interconnectedness, and become present to God's love, as God is always calling to us, in every instant. If we listen to this call we might come to realize something quite profound about our point of unique perspective. The absence of separation of that perspective from what it's on can be realized. The nature of the appearances of the limitations that make up that sensory experience can be known for what they are. After that, God's mystery begins to take on a whole other hue. God is present in the hearts of every living entity as the superself paramatma and from without as the time factor says the Vedic scriptures. He is directing the wanderings of self as the atma present side by side with the superself paramatma in the heart. The paramatma is located in the Sino-atrial node. It is that pulsating, rhytmic impulse that sends electricity to the Atrio-ventricular node where the atma lies. It said that once you pull the plug so to speak the paramatma the Sino-atrial node stops to pulsate the Ventriocular node also stops and the heart dies. It is not death for the human being if his brain dies, the body continues to live if the heart continues to beat. The heart and human body dies if the paramatma leaves the heart and takes away with it the atma. The paramatma and atma is the localized expansions of the Supreme Personality of God. He has unlimited names foremost of which is Vishnu/Krsna. He is the Cause of all causes. Through God's external energy Maya, the material manifestation appeared. In that manifestation are material bodies, the 1,800,000 species of life. These life forms which acquired material elements became animated because of the paramatma and atma. The paramatma although detached from the atma can influence the atma to love or kill another life form. Who can question the personal God if he does something whatever to anybody through the agency of Maya or nature? These are very limited ideas. Direct experience is far more powerful and profound. One glimpse of the truth--one moment of unity-- and all ideas about the truth will become laughable.
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Post by krsnaraja on Oct 13, 2017 7:38:16 GMT -5
God is present in the hearts of every living entity as the superself paramatma and from without as the time factor says the Vedic scriptures. He is directing the wanderings of self as the atma present side by side with the superself paramatma in the heart. The paramatma is located in the Sino-atrial node. It is that pulsating, rhytmic impulse that sends electricity to the Atrio-ventricular node where the atma lies. It said that once you pull the plug so to speak the paramatma the Sino-atrial node stops to pulsate the Ventriocular node also stops and the heart dies. It is not death for the human being if his brain dies, the body continues to live if the heart continues to beat. The heart and human body dies if the paramatma leaves the heart and takes away with it the atma. The paramatma and atma is the localized expansions of the Supreme Personality of God. He has unlimited names foremost of which is Vishnu/Krsna. He is the Cause of all causes. Through God's external energy Maya, the material manifestation appeared. In that manifestation are material bodies, the 1,800,000 species of life. These life forms which acquired material elements became animated because of the paramatma and atma. The paramatma although detached from the atma can influence the atma to love or kill another life form. Who can question the personal God if he does something whatever to anybody through the agency of Maya or nature? These are very limited ideas. Direct experience is far more powerful and profound. One glimpse of the truth--one moment of unity-- and all ideas about the truth will become laughable. When one is situated in Krsna consciousness he sees the absolute truth in full. When Dhruva saw the face of Lord Vishnu, he said, " O my Lord! Now that I've seen You, I no longer desire anything from You. " Just the same, Lord Vishnu awarded Druhva Maharaj the planet Polestar where all planetary systems revolve. The Polestar is the Sisumara, the north star Polaris. It is the star planet where siddhas like Narada Muni approach before they enter the Vaikuntha planets.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 8:50:20 GMT -5
you can't measure existence Maybe one can measure 'being'. I had heard a definition: it is what you can bear (by Mme Ouspensky). I thought about why I am interested in 'afterlife'.. It is mostly related to this, seeing the quality of being. While 'living' there is so much noise, too many troubles, for me! I can't see anything clearly. Also I can't see my life as a whole yet. I know it is not a nondual approach, but it is one reason anyway. *looks around for "much to unpack here!" moji*
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Post by zin on Oct 13, 2017 9:04:48 GMT -5
Maybe one can measure 'being'. I had heard a definition: it is what you can bear (by Mme Ouspensky). I thought about why I am interested in 'afterlife'.. It is mostly related to this, seeing the quality of being. While 'living' there is so much noise, too many troubles, for me! I can't see anything clearly. Also I can't see my life as a whole yet. I know it is not a nondual approach, but it is one reason anyway. *looks around for "much to unpack here!" moji* yeah, I understand!
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