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Post by lolly on Oct 11, 2017 23:36:19 GMT -5
Yes indeed - I'm quite scared of religious people, but I'm not religiophobic, because that is defined as an 'irrational fear'. When in Rome do what the Romans do. Foreigners, for example, are scared to visit and settle in the place they are not familiar with. Similarly people are scared of a religion they have not embraced. I am a Catholic. My family are born Catholics yet I am not scared embracing Hinduism. Fear is only in the mind. A non-dualist should not even get scared of people who are fanatics and religious. Only cowards are scared. If I use the words of J. Krishnamurti, he has said that when one identifies as Christian, Hindu etc, and as an American, Indian etc, they already become violent in the sense that they have separated themselves from the greater humanity. In m case, I have no identification with any nation, religion or other symbolic entity - I am only a human being. From my perspective it appears to me that I am much the same as other people regardless of their ethnicity or cultural heritage. Now we are in a time when the major conflict in the world is fundamentally a religious one, so people may have their justifications for their religious and national positions, and ultimately they will do anything to preserve them. To do this they must perceive an 'Other' against whom to define themselves, and because there is no Other in actual fact, but only in the symbolic realm, said Other is always encroaching, and if that is allowed and it is realised they aren't an other at all, then there will be nothing against whom to identify oneself. This then leads to a very remarkable dynamic where the other must be destroyed so it cannot encroach in this way, but it must be preserved at all costs in order to define the self identity. Hence, to allow it to encroach destroys the identity structure, and to maintain it always threatens to.
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Post by krsnaraja on Oct 11, 2017 23:41:26 GMT -5
Krsna is beyond of what you can conceive. He can do anything from the bizarre to grotesque because Krsna is the Cause of all causes. Krsna is beyond what I can conceive but you can conceive what he can do. Your logic is not only very much dual, it's very much oriented to place you and Krishna above and beyond the rest. I'd say I feel bad for what's inevitably coming your way, but I actually don't. Enjoy A wise man is not disturbed by what one says even if it goes against his views on life. But do think it over what I write on this thread for there is some truth in it if you really reflect on God's capacity to do which is contrary to what we conceive as normal. God can also do the abnormal and mind boggling.
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Post by krsnaraja on Oct 11, 2017 23:47:08 GMT -5
When in Rome do what the Romans do. Foreigners, for example, are scared to visit and settle in the place they are not familiar with. Similarly people are scared of a religion they have not embraced. I am a Catholic. My family are born Catholics yet I am not scared embracing Hinduism. Fear is only in the mind. A non-dualist should not even get scared of people who are fanatics and religious. Only cowards are scared. If I use the words of J. Krishnamurti, he has said that when one identifies as Christian, Hindu etc, and as an American, Indian etc, they already become violent in the sense that they have separated themselves from the greater humanity. In m case, I have no identification with any nation, religion or other symbolic entity - I am only a human being. From my perspective it appears to me that I am much the same as other people regardless of their ethnicity or cultural heritage. Now we are in a time when the major conflict in the world is fundamentally a religious one, so people may have their justifications for their religious and national positions, and ultimately they will do anything to preserve them. To do this they must perceive an 'Other' against whom to define themselves, and because there is no Other in actual fact, but only in the symbolic realm, said Other is always encroaching, and if that is allowed and it is realised they aren't an other at all, then there will be nothing against whom to identify oneself. This then leads to a very remarkable dynamic where the other must be destroyed so it cannot encroach in this way, but it must be preserved at all costs in order to define the self identity. Hence, to allow it to encroach destroys the identity structure, and to maintain it always threatens to. Ah, okay..
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Post by krsnaraja on Oct 11, 2017 23:53:33 GMT -5
Non-dualists do not believe in hot/cold, darkness/light, love/hate, rich/poor, good/devil, so on so forth. Non-dualists are neither people. They are in-between. If they vote for a candidate in an election, they chose the none of above. They don't take sides in sports/boxing. They go about their ways incognito. They don't want to be known as this and that. They rather be the and. That's why in their conversations, they chose neutral. There's no certainty. They go for the wait and see attitude. Non-dualists are the rocks, mountains, trees, frogs and sea horses. Oh well, that's the way they live their lives. They can not stay that way all the time. They have to eat and survive. They have to get personal and show their wares for what they are worth. If that's your perception then that's fine too. Finally, you & I get into something rather than end with nothing personal. ☺
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Post by lolly on Oct 12, 2017 0:05:35 GMT -5
Oh yeah... that's right... Sorry lolz. I knew at the time I was being flippant. Coming back to it seems to me that it's a sort of converse of someone "pointing to the truth". It's like I wrote to ZD about the koans. Sometimes folks have a shift in perspective that they can't describe all that well until they take on some new culture. No worries, flippant is fun. I like the song 'turning Japanese', though I know it's just a cheezy pop song... but koans one of those 'uber-spiritual' things which spiritual people bought into - but they are really as cheezy as the song is. Then I say so so and people think I disrespect culture, but really, it's just that made a precious holy thing out of what amount to pop lyrics. I mean, the best lyrics ever written were "A-wop-bop-a-loo-lop a-lop bam boo"
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Post by lolly on Oct 12, 2017 0:09:28 GMT -5
Krsna is beyond of what you can conceive. He can do anything from the bizarre to grotesque because Krsna is the Cause of all causes. Krsna is beyond what I can conceive but you can conceive what he can do. Your logic is not only very much dual, it's very much oriented to place you and Krishna above and beyond the rest. I'd say I feel bad for what's inevitably coming your way, but I actually don't. Enjoy Yea, the 'uncaused cause' is the crux of religious philosophy, in Christianity I think it was Aquinas who wrote the same argument. Boring read though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 2:47:26 GMT -5
Krsna is beyond what I can conceive but you can conceive what he can do. Your logic is not only very much dual, it's very much oriented to place you and Krishna above and beyond the rest. I'd say I feel bad for what's inevitably coming your way, but I actually don't. Enjoy A wise man is not disturbed by what one says even if it goes against his views on life. But do think it over what I write on this thread for there is some truth in it if you really reflect on God's capacity to do which is contrary to what we conceive as normal. God can also do the abnormal and mind boggling. It is worth remembering that the environment in which a god does the abnormal and the mind boggling, is none other than itself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 2:48:31 GMT -5
Krsna is beyond of what you can conceive. He can do anything from the bizarre to grotesque because Krsna is the Cause of all causes. Krsna is beyond what I can conceive but you can conceive what he can do. Your logic is not only very much dual, it's very much oriented to place you and Krishna above and beyond the rest. I'd say I feel bad for what's inevitably coming your way, but I actually don't. Enjoy Predicting the future based on your own experience?
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Post by laughter on Oct 12, 2017 5:00:28 GMT -5
Sorry lolz. I knew at the time I was being flippant. Coming back to it seems to me that it's a sort of converse of someone "pointing to the truth". It's like I wrote to ZD about the koans. Sometimes folks have a shift in perspective that they can't describe all that well until they take on some new culture. No worries, flippant is fun. I like the song 'turning Japanese', though I know it's just a cheezy pop song... but koans one of those 'uber-spiritual' things which spiritual people bought into - but they are really as cheezy as the song is. Then I say so so and people think I disrespect culture, but really, it's just that made a precious holy thing out of what amount to pop lyrics. I mean, the best lyrics ever written were "A-wop-bop-a-loo-lop a-lop bam boo" there is a profound poignancy to the universal laughter of SR that neither precludes a reverence for that culture nor disturbs the underlying equanimity.
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Post by laughter on Oct 12, 2017 5:04:20 GMT -5
Religious people are the most terrifying creatures on the planet. I agree. And simultaneously the most scared.
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Post by laughter on Oct 12, 2017 5:07:17 GMT -5
well, in a way, I guess there is some truth to it... when you consider that whole "THAT which you really are is untouched by birth or death" dealio people peeps hear what they want to hear in that.
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Post by laughter on Oct 12, 2017 5:10:55 GMT -5
Some browsers aren't displaying your avatar all the time.. and as Krsna is the cause of everything except obesity obviously it's a worthy question. I just hope I'm not on Krsna's sh!t list. ... dude ... you shoulda' ... well .. nevermind ..
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Post by laughter on Oct 12, 2017 5:13:41 GMT -5
I read non-dualists perceive God as cosmos. In the Vedic scriptures, non-dualists are said to have merged themselves with Brahman's effulgence. Non-dualists do not believe Christ/Krsna is God. Non-dualists are impersonalists. They rather become non-specific than specific. They think nothing is it. That something is only an illusion? Well, don't believe everything ya' read. If you're really interested I'll put on a nondualist-costume and offer a different perspective.
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Post by laughter on Oct 12, 2017 5:14:55 GMT -5
Yes & No. My perception is that non-dualists are atheists. Non-dualists have come to understand deeply what God is not. If in your perception that makes them atheists, that's fine. The seahorse has arrived at her destination.
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Post by laughter on Oct 12, 2017 5:22:20 GMT -5
E' occasionally just pauses and marvels at the depths of creativity the mind goes to in weaving the charade. Your second paragraph reminds me of that and I find it well expressed. Time and time again these dialogs come back to the simple distinction between map and territory, to the point that there is a realization about objects, about "thingness", that completely alters the mental landscape. Over and over again these dialogs circle back to the point that pointers aren't meant to be handled by the intellect, or even really, the emotional center. As was already suggested pages ago, "the one that transcends" isn't a "one", at all, in that conceiving of it as a personified deity that allows or prevents worldly action inevitably ends with a portrait of a psychopathic "creator". I had been observing along the thread, and for whatever reason, remember krsnaraja as one of the more sane or at least tranquil members. For whatever reason his facade has been called into question, and I have little doubt that these non dual rantings about krishna fantasies are providing some degree of resolution in regard to whatever circumstances he's dealing with. I read some mention about a doctor visit. That's some real stuff. I see a lot of moral crusading. Maybe that NDE is bringing to light conflict with Mom and Dad or his kids if he has any. I don't know. I do know that I don't think he or anyone else thinks that this thread is all that forward moving. If it can put an end to some backward motion, great. But, I dunno laffy, it's a strange place we live. It just seems like something he's not taking all that seriously, but it does seem like whistling in the graveyard, and for that reason, it's not pointless to talk about salvation. Anyway, If he'd answered this seriously my next question was gonna' be whether or not there was something major goin' on with his family. It's just something that happens on the forums. He already mentioned his dad's in pretty rough shape a week or so back. It's just energy burning, and perfect, just as it is.
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