|
|
Post by tzujanli on May 12, 2015 5:16:20 GMT -5
I was thinking that perhaps instead of seeking certainty that "I" am all of reality, the desired result might be better accomplished by not having certainty that "I" am my physical body. Unfortunately, since my seeing/hearing "perspective" is surrounded by a bag of skin that is touch-sensitive, that creates a pretty powerful feeling of "me" being "inside" the physical body. I will have to think about this. I understand that i am all of reality, experiencing myself through this unique presence we call a body.. i have created this unique presence as an independent version of myself, such that there is authenticity is my self exploration, such that 'i' can't rig the exploration in favor of my preferences, i experience myself authentically.. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on May 12, 2015 8:00:28 GMT -5
I was thinking that perhaps instead of seeking certainty that "I" am all of reality, the desired result might be better accomplished by not having certainty that "I" am my physical body. Unfortunately, since my seeing/hearing "perspective" is surrounded by a bag of skin that is touch-sensitive, that creates a pretty powerful feeling of "me" being "inside" the physical body. I will have to think about this. Thinking will not free you from the sense of being an entity inside a body looking out at the world, but you are obviously also contemplating this issue, and it's the contemplation that will free you from that sense of being a person separate from what is perceived. The question is probably so strong at this point that you can now turn your attention away from the question to direct sensory perception. IOW, don't think about the issue at all; simply look and listen in a state of empty unknowingness. You already know what you want to know, but what you want to know lies below (or beyond) the level of the intellect, so relax, and take some time to walk in the woods every day, or sit on a park bench, while watching/listening/smelling/feeling/being. Keep shifting attention away from thoughts to "what is." This will lead to internal unity, and allow the answer you are seeking to rise to the level of conscious awareness. What you are is already one-with the cosmos; it is only self-referential thoughts that are keeping the obvious hidden from view. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 12, 2015 9:04:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by andrew on May 12, 2015 9:08:37 GMT -5
J Krishnamurti said, and there is a book, "You are the world". and of course there's this: Great song. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 10:29:34 GMT -5
I was thinking that perhaps instead of seeking certainty that "I" am all of reality, the desired result might be better accomplished by not having certainty that "I" am my physical body. Unfortunately, since my seeing/hearing "perspective" is surrounded by a bag of skin that is touch-sensitive, that creates a pretty powerful feeling of "me" being "inside" the physical body. I will have to think about this. Thinking will not free you from the sense of being an entity inside a body looking out at the world, but you are obviously also contemplating this issue, and it's the contemplation that will free you from that sense of being a person separate from what is perceived. The question is probably so strong at this point that you can now turn your attention away from the question to direct sensory perception. IOW, don't think about the issue at all; simply look and listen in a state of empty unknowingness. You already know what you want to know, but what you want to know lies below (or beyond) the level of the intellect, so relax, and take some time to walk in the woods every day, or sit on a park bench, while watching/listening/smelling/feeling/being. Keep shifting attention away from thoughts to "what is." This will lead to internal unity, and allow the answer you are seeking to rise to the level of conscious awareness. What you are is already one-with the cosmos; it is only self-referential thoughts that are keeping the obvious hidden from view. huh? So this 'YOU' consist of many levels,huh? One level you know, in another level you do not know?huh? So this concrete answer is stored somewhere inside our consciousness? |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 12, 2015 10:49:29 GMT -5
Thinking will not free you from the sense of being an entity inside a body looking out at the world, but you are obviously also contemplating this issue, and it's the contemplation that will free you from that sense of being a person separate from what is perceived. The question is probably so strong at this point that you can now turn your attention away from the question to direct sensory perception. IOW, don't think about the issue at all; simply look and listen in a state of empty unknowingness. You already know what you want to know, but what you want to know lies below (or beyond) the level of the intellect, so relax, and take some time to walk in the woods every day, or sit on a park bench, while watching/listening/smelling/feeling/being. Keep shifting attention away from thoughts to "what is." This will lead to internal unity, and allow the answer you are seeking to rise to the level of conscious awareness. What you are is already one-with the cosmos; it is only self-referential thoughts that are keeping the obvious hidden from view. huh? So this 'YOU' consist of many levels,huh? One level you know, in another level you do not know?huh? So this concrete answer is stored somewhere inside our consciousness? Hey gopal, this is what many people have tried to point you to for months. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 11:08:21 GMT -5
huh? So this 'YOU' consist of many levels,huh? One level you know, in another level you do not know?huh? So this concrete answer is stored somewhere inside our consciousness? Hey gopal, this is what many people have tried to point you to for months. Yes, I am absolutely aware of that, but also I am keep repeating this question to him but unfortunately he never answered for me. What to do? He wouldn't because he would be in trap. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 12, 2015 12:05:40 GMT -5
Hey gopal, this is what many people have tried to point you to for months. Yes, I am absolutely aware of that, but also I am keep repeating this question to him but unfortunately he never answered for me. What to do? He wouldn't because he would be in trap. The point is even if he told you, you still wouldn't know. You have to discover this for yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on May 12, 2015 12:07:16 GMT -5
Hey gopal, this is what many people have tried to point you to for months. Yes, I am absolutely aware of that, but also I am keep repeating this question to him but unfortunately he never answered for me. What to do? He wouldn't because he would be in trap. E. has explained this to you many times, as have others. What we are is infinite, so how many levels do you want? 1? 100? 1000? Take your pick. You get to imagine whatever you wish. Who is the one who asks questions, and who is the one who discovers the answers? Are they the same or different? Who is Gopal? Pointing is just pointing. Either look where the finger is pointing or don't. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 12:19:27 GMT -5
Yes, I am absolutely aware of that, but also I am keep repeating this question to him but unfortunately he never answered for me. What to do? He wouldn't because he would be in trap. E. has explained this to you many times, as have others. What we are is infinite, so how many levels do you want? 1? 100? 1000? Take your pick. You get to imagine whatever you wish. Who is the one who asks questions, and who is the one who discovers the answers? Are they the same or different? Who is Gopal? Pointing is just pointing. Either look where the finger is pointing or don't. First of all what Enigma thinks pretty clear to me, even he knows that I have clearly understood him, there are few logical point of view we both differ, So Please don't bring Enigma here when you are explaining your point. Enigma never says there are layers or truth is in some deeper level and it would come to surface in contrast he said everything is being imagined in the face of God, that is everything is appearing in consciousness, truth is not somewhere inside for Enigma, Truth is what you are for Enigma. So Enigma and I might disagree in many places, but both are thoroughly understand what each other's idea of reality.
And coming to your argument, you asked me whether 1or 100 or 1000 levels? I did not say any of such thing, but your statement is what subdivides into various level, you said some inner level truth is there and it would come to the surface if you just keep on looking into the present movement or attending the sense perception, Isn't it subdividing two or more than two level in our consciousness? Please let me know? How come you know and not knowing at the same time?
Who is the one who asks questions? Consciousness, that is, Impersonal consciousness.
who is the one who discovers the answers? Again Consciousness.
Are they the same or different? Same, If so, why are you sub diving into two levels, inner level which already knows the answer or surface level which doesn't know the answer.
Who is Gopal? One of the expression or perspective in this consciousness.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 12:23:22 GMT -5
Yes, I am absolutely aware of that, but also I am keep repeating this question to him but unfortunately he never answered for me. What to do? He wouldn't because he would be in trap. The point is even if he told you, you still wouldn't know. You have to discover this for yourself. Did you discover it for yourself? Try to understand me, My main point is, we can't know anything with our effect as Zendancer says. Knowing would cause the change but this knowing can't be caused. Zendancer ATA,BTA,CTA,DTA or any other technique is just another new creation of mind, that's the reason zendancer still performing this ATA,meditation technique. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 12:30:19 GMT -5
Hey gopal, this is what many people have tried to point you to for months. Yes, I am absolutely aware of that, but also I am keep repeating this question to him but unfortunately he never answered for me. What to do? He wouldn't because he would be in trap. gopal you are playing a game of catch-22, in which the more answers you get, the more questions you have. And then more seeking of answers and then more questions.... What you are seeking is in this moment, it cannot be found in thought. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 12, 2015 12:32:42 GMT -5
E. has explained this to you many times, as have others. What we are is infinite, so how many levels do you want? 1? 100? 1000? Take your pick. You get to imagine whatever you wish. Who is the one who asks questions, and who is the one who discovers the answers? Are they the same or different? Who is Gopal? Pointing is just pointing. Either look where the finger is pointing or don't. First of all what Enigma thinks pretty clear to me, even he knows that I have clearly understood him, there are few logical point of view we both differ, So Please don't bring Enigma here when you are explaining your point. Enigma never says there are layers or truth is in some deeper level and it would come to surface in contrast he said everything is being imagined in the face of God, that is everything is appearing in consciousness, truth is not somewhere inside for Enigma, Truth is what you are for Enigma.
And coming to your argument, you asked me whether 1or 100 or 1000 levels? I did not say any of such thing, but your statement is what subdivides into various level, you said some inner level truth is there and it would come to the surface if you just keep on looking into the present movement or attending the sense perception, Isn't it subdividing two or more than two level in our consciousness? Please let me know? How come you know and not knowing at the same time?
Who is the one who asks questions? Consciousness, that is, Impersonal consciousness.
who is the one who discovers the answers? Again Consciousness.
Are they the same or different? Same, If so, why are you sub diving into two levels, inner level which already knows the answer or surface level which doesn't know the answer.
Who is Gopal? One of the expression or perspective in this consciousness.
Gopal, go to the Who here is enlightened? thread and try my post there, my second post. (Here) spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4130/who-enlightenedJust try it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 12:36:27 GMT -5
Yes, I am absolutely aware of that, but also I am keep repeating this question to him but unfortunately he never answered for me. What to do? He wouldn't because he would be in trap. gopal you are playing a game of catch-22, in which the more answers you get, the more questions you have. And then more seeking of answers and then more questions.... What you are seeking is in this moment, it cannot be found in thought. It's a question to understand what he exactly thinks. What he speaks doesn't make any sense at any time. Because in my view, nothing can be done to attain or eradicate anything from our reality, reality unfolds perfectly. Anything you do to attain something would be a new creation, Creation is something which repeats in your reality, So his meditation or ATA-T is just another creation to the mind. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on May 12, 2015 12:43:44 GMT -5
The point is even if he told you, you still wouldn't know. You have to discover this for yourself. Did you discover it for yourself? Try to understand me, My main point is, we can't know anything with our effect as Zendancer says. Knowing would cause the change but this knowing can't be caused. Zendancer ATA,BTA,CTA,DTA or any other technique is just another new creation of mind, that's the reason zendancer still performing this ATA,meditation technique. Did I discover for myself? Yes. In my tradition almost nothing of importance was given, except how to find what's important (and that turns out to be everything, that is, the how). If I can make an analogy, we were given the recipe for baking a cake, but we were not told what the cake would be like in any manner. If we didn't follow the "recipe", no cake. Some things I have shared here almost casually, it took me fifteen years to learn, to understand. In the post above I gave you something to try, from the Who here is enlightened? thread. (My second post on that thread). Try it, or don't, but it will answer your question (that is, from it you can answer your own question).. |
|
