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Post by onehandclapping on Mar 18, 2015 1:23:24 GMT -5
Someone needs to shower, they stink. That's a very interesting comment to interject into a conversation two people are having about how effortless and wonderful life is. Please elaborate. What would motivate you to make that comment? Almost always, which maybe others can speak to examples where this didn't happen for someone, but with most people who have an awakening experience, they go through a time afterwards where everything is blissful and wonderful. It's called the stink of enlightenment by some peeps. You can ask ZD to clarify further as he's the resident dictionary for Zen stuff. Haha. I also know that Adyashanti talks about it sometimes in his YouTube clips. Most everyone experiences the stink but eventually it fades and you come to realize that it's just this, normal everyday life. Nothing special. Just This. And then bliss fades and a deeper connectivity and understanding begins to take hold. The best word I could use to describe it is peace.
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Post by onehandclapping on Mar 18, 2015 1:24:09 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 2:32:37 GMT -5
That's a very interesting comment to interject into a conversation two people are having about how effortless and wonderful life is. Please elaborate. What would motivate you to make that comment? Almost always, which maybe others can speak to examples where this didn't happen for someone, but with most people who have an awakening experience, they go through a time afterwards where everything is blissful and wonderful. It's called the stink of enlightenment by some peeps. You can ask ZD to clarify further as he's the resident dictionary for Zen stuff. Haha. I also know that Adyashanti talks about it sometimes in his YouTube clips. Most everyone experiences the stink but eventually it fades and you come to realize that it's just this, normal everyday life. Nothing special. Just This. And then bliss fades and a deeper connectivity and understanding begins to take hold. The best word I could use to describe it is peace. That's a valid comment. I use the words bliss and peace interchangeability and it is certainly permanent. The problem is that to most people the word bliss suggests something exciting and ecstatic. It is not like that. It is as solid as a rock. It is quite natural. After SR, the unfolding and deepening of experience is never ending as Adyashanti has spoken about frequently.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 18, 2015 2:46:42 GMT -5
That's a very interesting comment to interject into a conversation two people are having about how effortless and wonderful life is. Please elaborate. What would motivate you to make that comment? Almost always, which maybe others can speak to examples where this didn't happen for someone, but with most people who have an awakening experience, they go through a time afterwards where everything is blissful and wonderful. It's called the stink of enlightenment by some peeps. You can ask ZD to clarify further as he's the resident dictionary for Zen stuff. Haha. I also know that Adyashanti talks about it sometimes in his YouTube clips. Most everyone experiences the stink but eventually it fades and you come to realize that it's just this, normal everyday life. Nothing special. Just This. And then bliss fades and a deeper connectivity and understanding begins to take hold. The best word I could use to describe it is peace. Ah, OHC is not a grasshopper after all! *bows*
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Post by zendancer on Mar 18, 2015 2:54:41 GMT -5
It's difficult to identify what is mind playing its old tricks and what is Reality. Quite often ego will mock that which challenges it. Both of these statements are true, but who is the mocked, and who is the mockee? Sometimes it is the opposite of what one imagines.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 18, 2015 2:55:32 GMT -5
It's difficult to identify what is mind playing its old tricks and what is Reality. Quite often ego will mock that which challenges it. And who is it that takes themselves seriously? Indeed!
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Post by zendancer on Mar 18, 2015 2:56:45 GMT -5
Someone needs to shower, they stink. That's a very interesting comment to interject into a conversation two people are having about how effortless and wonderful life is. Please elaborate. What would motivate you to make that comment? You may not want to know.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 18, 2015 2:59:53 GMT -5
I am not going to state matter-of-factly what exactly Self-Realization is, but rather I am going to share my experience, for I feel that experience/Life is the pudding in which proof is manifest. My experience is that SR is not some sort of understanding or knowing sitting in the back of my consciousness. It is much more real and tangible, in an almost physical way. Tolle actually hummed at a certain frequency in an interview trying to describe it. Ramana said that his shaking, and the reason he used a walking stick, was due to the overwhelming power of Self coming through. So the knowing or understanding is a by-product of describing/relating from the perspective of the experience. The knowing isn't intellectual, it's experiential. What is different for me now than before is that there is another entity/presence here that never used to be. As Ramana put it: "Something new shines through." Of course this is simply the Self that had previously gone unnoticed. This presence is here all the time. There is awareness of the continuum of presence. There is a quality of, Ramana described it, "inward awareness." The pull of Reality is so... REAL, that nothing in the realms of thought/physicality attract. Abidance in/as this Reality has resulted in a dramatic and wonderful change in the life of "roy dopson." To put it succinctly, I'm just so f*cking happy all the time! So for me, life has definitely not continued on as it did before, only a little bit better. It's like being in love all the time, with no breaks. It's Nirvana! It's difficult so identify what is mind playing its old tricks and what is Reality. I would suggest that one check understanding/belief against experience as often and as objectively as possible. You may be missing, just slightly. That's absolutely spot on Roy. Something quite tangible seems to come through. And there's more. The world I perceive, the world I create and project from my mind has actually changed. It's very strange. For some time after I "woke up" I noticed that nothing was going wrong. This seemed weird. All my interactions with others were perfect encounters. No problems at all were arising. I remember thinking at the time that this must be a fluke. If I only wait for a while longer, something is bound to go wrong. I'm still waiting. It is quite wondrous. To all the doubters, I can confidently say without any doubt whatsoever that there is only bliss, nothing else. The whole cosmos is made from it. Be careful! This is treading on very thin ice.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 3:03:28 GMT -5
That's absolutely spot on Roy. Something quite tangible seems to come through. And there's more. The world I perceive, the world I create and project from my mind has actually changed. It's very strange. For some time after I "woke up" I noticed that nothing was going wrong. This seemed weird. All my interactions with others were perfect encounters. No problems at all were arising. I remember thinking at the time that this must be a fluke. If I only wait for a while longer, something is bound to go wrong. I'm still waiting. It is quite wondrous. To all the doubters, I can confidently say without any doubt whatsoever that there is only bliss, nothing else. The whole cosmos is made from it. Be careful! This is treading on very thin ice. I wish I knew what you meant by that.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 18, 2015 4:50:37 GMT -5
Be careful! This is treading on very thin ice. I wish I knew what you meant by that. Vedanta is an ancient tradition, far older than Zen. It has distinguished aspects of the spiritual path that no other tradition has come close to. Zen discusses only two kinds of Samadhi, but Vedanta masters refer to three times that many, and a few masters go even farther than this. Those distinctions are not so important, but what they point to is worth contemplating. Nirvikalpa Samadhi is what Zen refers to as "the dropping off of body and mind," and it is an extremely deep state of unity consciousness, but an individual can enter this samadhi every day for fifty years and still get no closer to attaining sahaja samadhi, which Ramana called "the highest." I prefer to call it "flow." Any thought of specialness, uniqueness, or attainment is something that needs to be discarded as quickly as possible. If a Zen master read some of the posts on this thread, she would say, "Bring me some soap and water." It is what OHC was pointing to with his "stink" comment. The very title of this thread is the exact opposite of what the phrase "sahaja samadhi" is pointing to. Any efforting to attain anything is an indication that something is amiss, and any statement implying specialness or special attainment falls into the same category. Being an ordinary person is not such a bad thing, but thinking that one has attained anything unusual or extraordinary is. True attainment results in deep humility and a willingness to be considered a total fool. I've read your posts, so I know that you will see where these words are pointing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 5:04:32 GMT -5
I wish I knew what you meant by that. Vedanta is an ancient tradition, far older than Zen. It has distinguished aspects of the spiritual path that no other tradition has come close to. Zen discusses only two kinds of Samadhi, but Vedanta masters refer to three times that many, and a few masters go even farther than this. Those distinctions are not so important, but what they point to is worth contemplating. Nirvikalpa Samadhi is what Zen refers to as "the dropping off of body and mind," and it is an extremely deep state of unity consciousness, but an individual can enter this samadhi every day for fifty years and still get no closer to attaining sahaja samadhi, which Ramana called "the highest." I prefer to call it "flow." Any thought of specialness, uniqueness, or attainment is something that needs to be discarded as quickly as possible. If a Zen master read some of the posts on this thread, she would say, "Bring me some soap and water." It is what OHC was pointing to with his "stink" comment. The very title of this thread is the exact opposite of what the phrase "sahaja samadhi" is pointing to. Any efforting to attain anything is an indication that something is amiss, and any statement implying specialness or special attainment falls into the same category. Being an ordinary person is not such a bad thing, but thinking that one has attained anything unusual or extraordinary is. True attainment results in deep humility and a willingness to be considered a total fool. I've read your posts, so I know that you will see where these words are pointing. I'm not a fan of Zen at all. Of course there is humility, but I say what I know and I'm not afraid of that because I know what I am. Those caught up in behavioral conventions of what they deem to be acceptable in the hushed world of spirituality need to get out more.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 5:41:57 GMT -5
I wish I knew what you meant by that. Vedanta is an ancient tradition, far older than Zen. It has distinguished aspects of the spiritual path that no other tradition has come close to. Zen discusses only two kinds of Samadhi, but Vedanta masters refer to three times that many, and a few masters go even farther than this. Those distinctions are not so important, but what they point to is worth contemplating. Nirvikalpa Samadhi is what Zen refers to as "the dropping off of body and mind," and it is an extremely deep state of unity consciousness, but an individual can enter this samadhi every day for fifty years and still get no closer to attaining sahaja samadhi, which Ramana called "the highest." I prefer to call it "flow." Any thought of specialness, uniqueness, or attainment is something that needs to be discarded as quickly as possible. If a Zen master read some of the posts on this thread, she would say, "Bring me some soap and water." It is what OHC was pointing to with his "stink" comment. The very title of this thread is the exact opposite of what the phrase "sahaja samadhi" is pointing to. Any efforting to attain anything is an indication that something is amiss, and any statement implying specialness or special attainment falls into the same category. Being an ordinary person is not such a bad thing, but thinking that one has attained anything unusual or extraordinary is. True attainment results in deep humility and a willingness to be considered a total fool. I've read your posts, so I know that you will see where these words are pointing. How can there be humility in SR? Not possible. Also, I don't see where anything that Sat and I are talking about is an indication of effort to attain. Life is flowing naturally, effortlessly. I'm with Sat here where he says he's not a big fan of Zen. Most Zen peeps are stuck believing that physicality is fundamental - their focus is brought to immediate experience of the sense, but not to Self). Sure they work on transcendence of mind, but even this becomes a very convoluted, round-about way that more often than not leads to more confusion than clarity. A lot of Zen folk get so muddled up in their own mind games they never find Self. I started this thread to indicate that along with SR comes actual life change, not to brag. People who think I'm bragging are looking for something that's not there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 6:08:23 GMT -5
If everyone is looking for the end of suffering, then if there is an end of suffering, can it not be spoken about by someone who is no longer suffering?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 6:11:43 GMT -5
For those whose minds are constantly expanding, clinging to external objects, factors will always arise causing increasing bondage. If the outward-wandering mind is turned inwards to stay in its natural state, know that one will not undergo any suffering in the world. Ramana Maharshi
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Post by zendancer on Mar 18, 2015 7:51:45 GMT -5
Vedanta is an ancient tradition, far older than Zen. It has distinguished aspects of the spiritual path that no other tradition has come close to. Zen discusses only two kinds of Samadhi, but Vedanta masters refer to three times that many, and a few masters go even farther than this. Those distinctions are not so important, but what they point to is worth contemplating. Nirvikalpa Samadhi is what Zen refers to as "the dropping off of body and mind," and it is an extremely deep state of unity consciousness, but an individual can enter this samadhi every day for fifty years and still get no closer to attaining sahaja samadhi, which Ramana called "the highest." I prefer to call it "flow." Any thought of specialness, uniqueness, or attainment is something that needs to be discarded as quickly as possible. If a Zen master read some of the posts on this thread, she would say, "Bring me some soap and water." It is what OHC was pointing to with his "stink" comment. The very title of this thread is the exact opposite of what the phrase "sahaja samadhi" is pointing to. Any efforting to attain anything is an indication that something is amiss, and any statement implying specialness or special attainment falls into the same category. Being an ordinary person is not such a bad thing, but thinking that one has attained anything unusual or extraordinary is. True attainment results in deep humility and a willingness to be considered a total fool. I've read your posts, so I know that you will see where these words are pointing. I'm not a fan of Zen at all. Of course there is humility, but I say what I know and I'm not afraid of that because I know what I am. Those caught up in behavioral conventions of what they deem to be acceptable in the hushed world of spirituality need to get out more. Despite the screen name I use I am not a fan of Zen either, and I have no objection to the kind of confidence that comes from knowing what one IS. What I'm pointing to has nothing to do with ideas about behavior or conventions of any kind. As for "the hushed world of spirituality," a majority of knowledgeable posters have noted that this can be a kind of esoteric escape, and they have repeatedly emphasized that deep understanding fully embraces the romping and stomping of ordinary life as well as sitting in silence. If there is any sting from what I posted, take a look. Otherwise, forget it.
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