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Post by japhy on Aug 22, 2014 6:04:21 GMT -5
when i was about 18 years old, i came home from work early one friday afternoon,.My boss had given me a bottle of sherry and two glasses as a thank you for a job well done. I did not drink alcohol in those days, did not smoke, and had begun doing hatha yoga excercises...which i found in a very big book with large black and white photos .I was an absolute beginner and was more curious than really convinced i could ever learn these impossible positions.I admired the man on the photo´s, he was definately an accomplished hatha yogi, as far as i could tell. So i sat down on the couch, the bottle and the two glasses on the coffeetable in front of me.As i was going through the pages of the book,looking at the photos, a question arose...´´what is alcohol?´´ of course i had drunk alcohol when i was younger, in my teens and decided i did not like it very much, at least i never got totally drunk again after one time when i found the missing parts of my moped strung along the road home, and had fallen asleep in the middle of my mother´s flowerbed. i clearly formulated the question in my head, and let go of it, not knowing i was doing anything specific.I then drank two glasses of sherry, a small amount, sherry glasses can not contain much fluid, at least these could not. I was tired, and decided to take a nap...my roommates (housemates...we lived in a squat) would come home in a few hours, so i could sleep undisturbed,i had already forgotten about my question. the bed was in a kind of cupboard, old style dutch , with 2 doors and a matrass on the floor...after half an hour or so, something caught my attention...something was moving into the room, i could see it through the small opening of the ´´cupboard´´ doors. I focused and saw a moving, black carpet slowly coming towards me, and when i looked closer, i saw the carpet consisted of tens of thousands of very small spiderlike insects...they engulfed the floor and were soon going to reach my bed... At that point i realised that i was hallucinating, and tried to snap out of it..to no avail..on the contrary, i got gripped with fear, a panic that completely paralysed me...the ´´carpet´´ entered the cupboard and started crawling across the bedcovers.I could clearly distinguish small insects...millions of them, the whole floor in the other room was now covered by them... I do not know how long this lasted, at some point i heard noises and one of my housemates had come home and was in the adjacent room, the door of which was slightly open(the bugs had come in through there) I tried to yell, make some kind of noise--it was impossible, no sound came out of my throat...i could not move. i do not recall what happened next, i do not recall feeling them actually on my face.I may have passed out (probable) and when i woke up again, they were gone.My friend had not noticed anything strange. i never saw pink elephants, and the experience never repeated itself, though i did get drunk a few times in my life after that. Hallucination of insects (black spiders) is often reported by people who abuse anti histamins of the first generation. Also sleep deprivation is reported to have such effets on some folks. I never heard about anyone getting hallucinations from this amount of alcohol, but you seem to be quite special in this regard.
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Post by quinn on Aug 22, 2014 6:15:22 GMT -5
It reminds me of a famous story of a Zen Master who was about to be killed by two samurai in Japan. When he showed no fear of death, and looked utterly unconcerned, the two men lost all interest in killing him. In the early days of the Iraqi war a small group of US contractors were taken hostage. In a later video of the hostages released to the media, one particular hostage stood out for his calm and complete lack of concern about the situation, while the other hostages were clearly worried. It turns out that in the end all of the hostages were killed...but one. Inexplicably, the captors released the same unconcerned hostage completely unharmed. I sometimes tell the occasional lady that if she were ever put in a position such as Quinn described, that if she were to have an attitude of calm, unconcern about it, she would likely disarm her attacker as a result. I've gotten some interesting looks along the way with that suggestion. But there is definitely something to be said about putting up emotional resistance to dangerous situations and empowering that danger, whereas non-resistence seems to have the effect of minimizing or dissolving danger. I first learned about this in my early twenties when someone much bigger and stronger came to harm me at my house and intuitively dealing with it without anger or upset. I watched in complete surprise and gratefulness when he began to literally melt and fall into my couch before my eyes, drained of ability and, as they say, dazed and confused. He too kept apologizing. I ended up making him a cup of coffee and giving him a ride home. Never saw him again after that. The only general advice I would give is to trust your gut. In some situations, the only hope of survival is to get away or not get into a situation that feels 'off' in the first place. A hard thing for most women as we're conditioned to be acquiescent (although that seems to be changing - let's hope!). I don't know how I acted after 'I' wasn't there, but he did change at some point. Drove me to town instead of leaving me in the Florida woods after dark (not a place to be walking) and was full of apology. It could have gone very differently, and in this case maybe it did have to do with non-resistance. At the time, though, being fully identified with my thoughts and actions, it was difficult to live with the extreme sense of powerlessness that came out of it. The weight of that began to tip the scale as to which was better - to die fighting or live in a mental prison. I'd be careful about general advice to not resist, especially to women.
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Post by sunshine on Aug 22, 2014 6:16:53 GMT -5
when i was about 18 years old, i came home from work early one friday afternoon,.My boss had given me a bottle of sherry and two glasses as a thank you for a job well done. I did not drink alcohol in those days, did not smoke, and had begun doing hatha yoga excercises...which i found in a very big book with large black and white photos .I was an absolute beginner and was more curious than really convinced i could ever learn these impossible positions.I admired the man on the photo´s, he was definately an accomplished hatha yogi, as far as i could tell. So i sat down on the couch, the bottle and the two glasses on the coffeetable in front of me.As i was going through the pages of the book,looking at the photos, a question arose...´´what is alcohol?´´ of course i had drunk alcohol when i was younger, in my teens and decided i did not like it very much, at least i never got totally drunk again after one time when i found the missing parts of my moped strung along the road home, and had fallen asleep in the middle of my mother´s flowerbed. i clearly formulated the question in my head, and let go of it, not knowing i was doing anything specific.I then drank two glasses of sherry, a small amount, sherry glasses can not contain much fluid, at least these could not. I was tired, and decided to take a nap...my roommates (housemates...we lived in a squat) would come home in a few hours, so i could sleep undisturbed,i had already forgotten about my question. the bed was in a kind of cupboard, old style dutch , with 2 doors and a matrass on the floor...after half an hour or so, something caught my attention...something was moving into the room, i could see it through the small opening of the ´´cupboard´´ doors. I focused and saw a moving, black carpet slowly coming towards me, and when i looked closer, i saw the carpet consisted of tens of thousands of very small spiderlike insects...they engulfed the floor and were soon going to reach my bed... At that point i realised that i was hallucinating, and tried to snap out of it..to no avail..on the contrary, i got gripped with fear, a panic that completely paralysed me...the ´´carpet´´ entered the cupboard and started crawling across the bedcovers.I could clearly distinguish small insects...millions of them, the whole floor in the other room was now covered by them... I do not know how long this lasted, at some point i heard noises and one of my housemates had come home and was in the adjacent room, the door of which was slightly open(the bugs had come in through there) I tried to yell, make some kind of noise--it was impossible, no sound came out of my throat...i could not move. i do not recall what happened next, i do not recall feeling them actually on my face.I may have passed out (probable) and when i woke up again, they were gone.My friend had not noticed anything strange. i never saw pink elephants, and the experience never repeated itself, though i did get drunk a few times in my life after that. Hallucination of insects (black spiders) is often reported by people who abuse anti histamins of the first generation. Also sleep deprivation is reported to have such effets on some folks. I never heard about anyone getting hallucinations from this amount of alcohol, but you seem to be quite special in this regard. i dont know what anti histamines are---i looked it up but cant relate to them much later in my life i realised that i could ´´ask´´ things, and if they were relevant questions, i would get ´´answers´´.I never made much use of it though...i never saw it as a tool, though maybe i should have.There was enough other stuff going on in my life to keep it ´´interesting´´(like full blown schizofrenic paranoia)Most ´´questions´´ as well as ´´wishes´´ stem from ego--i do not trust them..--
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Post by quinn on Aug 22, 2014 6:25:52 GMT -5
I focused and saw a moving, black carpet slowly coming towards me, and when i looked closer, i saw the carpet consisted of tens of thousands of very small spiderlike insects...they engulfed the floor and were soon going to reach my bed... At that point i realised that i was hallucinating, and tried to snap out of it..to no avail..on the contrary, i got gripped with fear, a panic that completely paralysed me...the ´´carpet´´ entered the cupboard and started crawling across the bedcovers.I could clearly distinguish small insects...millions of them, the whole floor in the other room was now covered by them... It sounds like the sherry was tainted in some way. I had a masses-of-spiders hallucination from lsd once. Not coincidentally, my last time with it.
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Post by japhy on Aug 22, 2014 6:28:28 GMT -5
i dont know what anti histamines are---i looked it up but cant relate to them much later in my life i realised that i could ´´ask´´ things, and if they were relevant questions, i would get ´´answers´´.I never made much use of it though...i never saw it as a tool, though maybe i should have.There was enough other stuff going on in my life to keep it ´´interesting´´(like full blown schizofrenic paranoia)Most ´´questions´´ as well as ´´wishes´´ stem from ego--i do not trust them..-- Anti histamins are used for allergies, but especially 1. generation anti histamins have strong effects on the CNS (central nervous system). Therefore they are nowadyas mostly used as sleeping aids and anti emetics (against vomiting). If you have been treated for any allergical condition you might have been taking anti histamins by that time.
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Post by sunshine on Aug 22, 2014 6:30:19 GMT -5
In the early days of the Iraqi war a small group of US contractors were taken hostage. In a later video of the hostages released to the media, one particular hostage stood out for his calm and complete lack of concern about the situation, while the other hostages were clearly worried. It turns out that in the end all of the hostages were killed...but one. Inexplicably, the captors released the same unconcerned hostage completely unharmed. I sometimes tell the occasional lady that if she were ever put in a position such as Quinn described, that if she were to have an attitude of calm, unconcern about it, she would likely disarm her attacker as a result. I've gotten some interesting looks along the way with that suggestion. But there is definitely something to be said about putting up emotional resistance to dangerous situations and empowering that danger, whereas non-resistence seems to have the effect of minimizing or dissolving danger. I first learned about this in my early twenties when someone much bigger and stronger came to harm me at my house and intuitively dealing with it without anger or upset. I watched in complete surprise and gratefulness when he began to literally melt and fall into my couch before my eyes, drained of ability and, as they say, dazed and confused. He too kept apologizing. I ended up making him a cup of coffee and giving him a ride home. Never saw him again after that. The only general advice I would give is to trust your gut. In some situations, the only hope of survival is to get away or not get into a situation that feels 'off' in the first place. A hard thing for most women as we're conditioned to be acquiescent (although that seems to be changing - let's hope!). I don't know how I acted after 'I' wasn't there, but he did change at some point. Drove me to town instead of leaving me in the Florida woods after dark (not a place to be walking) and was full of apology. It could have gone very differently, and in this case maybe it did have to do with non-resistance. At the time, though, being fully identified with my thoughts and actions, it was difficult to live with the extreme sense of powerlessness that came out of it. The weight of that began to tip the scale as to which was better - to die fighting or live in a mental prison. I'd be careful about general advice to not resist, especially to women. Satprem describes an event in his life when he was followed by three men, near Auroville, and he felt they were out to kill him. (S. was a controversial man at that time and had antagonised a lot of (bad) people, large sums of money were involved as well as prestige) he is an accomplished yogi, and he said what he did was to keep completely still...inner stillness..no fear---the men took off his watch, maybe to make it look like a robbery, he kept still, and then they lost interest and walked away. S said, that since he did not resonate with them they were powerless to act violently--- later he had to move to another part of India, threats to his life were serious.
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Post by japhy on Aug 22, 2014 6:40:03 GMT -5
Hey sunshine,
since you have told your story about being diagnosed schizophrenic, I would like to hear how you see this condition today. What are in your opinion the reasons that someone becomes schizophrenic. Is it a phase which might pass or a life long condition? Did you take medication and did it help? What does it mean to live with those voices? I am curious, but I will also fully understand, if you don't want to answer some or any off those questions on a public forum.
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 22, 2014 8:16:50 GMT -5
In the early days of the Iraqi war a small group of US contractors were taken hostage. In a later video of the hostages released to the media, one particular hostage stood out for his calm and complete lack of concern about the situation, while the other hostages were clearly worried. It turns out that in the end all of the hostages were killed...but one. Inexplicably, the captors released the same unconcerned hostage completely unharmed. I sometimes tell the occasional lady that if she were ever put in a position such as Quinn described, that if she were to have an attitude of calm, unconcern about it, she would likely disarm her attacker as a result. I've gotten some interesting looks along the way with that suggestion. But there is definitely something to be said about putting up emotional resistance to dangerous situations and empowering that danger, whereas non-resistence seems to have the effect of minimizing or dissolving danger. I first learned about this in my early twenties when someone much bigger and stronger came to harm me at my house and intuitively dealing with it without anger or upset. I watched in complete surprise and gratefulness when he began to literally melt and fall into my couch before my eyes, drained of ability and, as they say, dazed and confused. He too kept apologizing. I ended up making him a cup of coffee and giving him a ride home. Never saw him again after that. The only general advice I would give is to trust your gut. In some situations, the only hope of survival is to get away or not get into a situation that feels 'off' in the first place. A hard thing for most women as we're conditioned to be acquiescent (although that seems to be changing - let's hope!). I don't know how I acted after 'I' wasn't there, but he did change at some point. Drove me to town instead of leaving me in the Florida woods after dark (not a place to be walking) and was full of apology. It could have gone very differently, and in this case maybe it did have to do with non-resistance. At the time, though, being fully identified with my thoughts and actions, it was difficult to live with the extreme sense of powerlessness that came out of it. The weight of that began to tip the scale as to which was better - to die fighting or live in a mental prison. I'd be careful about general advice to not resist, especially to women. The "do not resist" points mainly to emotional non-resistance and not the physical necessarily. Sometimes it is best to flee. A girlfriend and I were once invited to a party. It was early in the evening and when we got there there were about 15 guys and just us. The guys began to act strange, going off to backrooms, whispering to each other, acting giddy for no apparent reason etc, etc. I began to feel inner alarm bells and at one point suddenly said we had to go, took my girlfriend by the hand and left. My girlfriend looked surprised and the "guys" looked like someone was walking off with their meal. I don't want to speculate what might have happened but yeah, going with your gut, fleeing is often a very good thing. But whether you are in a position where you are powerless to do anything about the situation or if in one where you can do something, a cool head, emotional non-resistance seems to win the day in the situations I've experienced and the ones I've heard about. Remember this story.
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Post by quinn on Aug 22, 2014 9:12:24 GMT -5
The "do not resist" points mainly to emotional non-resistance and not the physical necessarily. Sometimes it is best to flee. A girlfriend and I were once invited to party. It was early in the evening and when we got there there were about 15 guys and just us. The guys began to act strange, going off to backrooms, whispering to each other, acting giddy for no apparent reason etc, etc. I began to feel inner alarm bells and at one point suddenly said we had to go, took my girlfriend by the hand and left. My girlfriend looked surprised and the "guys" looked like someone was walking off with their meal. I don't want to speculate what might have happened but yeah, going with your gut, fleeing is often a very good thing. But whether you are in a position where you are powerless to do anything about the situation or if in one where you can do something, a cool head, emotional non-resistance seems to win the day in the situations I've experienced and the ones I've heard about. Remember this story. Yes, I agree - non-resistance is an internal perspective, not necessarily directly tied to action although it could shape an action. Same is true for the stories we hear (like the one you linked to). I tend to think there are a myriad of elements that come in to play in those sorts of scenarios. We, of course, don't hear the stories of ones who had a deep sense of calm non-resistance and ended up dead. Really, the important thing is our own state.
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Post by sunshine on Aug 22, 2014 9:52:08 GMT -5
I focused and saw a moving, black carpet slowly coming towards me, and when i looked closer, i saw the carpet consisted of tens of thousands of very small spiderlike insects...they engulfed the floor and were soon going to reach my bed... At that point i realised that i was hallucinating, and tried to snap out of it..to no avail..on the contrary, i got gripped with fear, a panic that completely paralysed me...the ´´carpet´´ entered the cupboard and started crawling across the bedcovers.I could clearly distinguish small insects...millions of them, the whole floor in the other room was now covered by them... It sounds like the sherry was tainted in some way. I had a masses-of-spiders hallucination from lsd once. Not coincidentally, my last time with it. wow, never thought of that, sherry being tainted...maybe because Holland is so strict on food control ...(as dumm as any country though when it comes to animal proteine) I did have a negative LSD experience years earlier, maybe related, dunno.
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Post by sunshine on Aug 22, 2014 10:21:11 GMT -5
Hey sunshine, since you have told your story about being diagnosed schizophrenic, I would like to hear how you see this condition today. What are in your opinion the reasons that someone becomes schizophrenic. Is it a phase which might pass or a life long condition? Did you take medication and did it help? What does it mean to live with those voices? I am curious, but I will also fully understand, if you don't want to answer some or any off those questions on a public forum. Hello Japhy i have no problem talking about that episode in my life i have actually done so extensively here on STF, but those accounts are closed and those posts may be difficult to find back--i dont know if the seach engine could help with that at the moment i do not have the time to do it, (edit: turns out i do have some time !)maybe Laughter could help you in using the search engine--i never managed to get any result out of it but then i am a computer nitwit. when closing the sunshine account i did not realise that i locked myself out of these posts...they are still there but how to find them keyword schizofrenia, schizofrenic ,mental illness---posted as sunshine,(or, different account: astrokite ---and/or butterfly.) one thing i can answer quickly---mental hospitals and medication are HELL---they were for me--psychiatrists are total nitwits, unless you want to become an obedient slave of society,(which at some point really was all i wanted ,it just had to stop)but eventhat they managed to fumble and alienate me in such a manner that i litterally rather died than ever set foot in a mental hospital again. Voices were unbearable ---at first---not just voices---all kinds of hallucinations looking back, it was my spirit/soul pushing me through some experiences in order to become free--- the worst of it all was the social stigma and the fact that i did things that were ´´unacceptable´´ in society (like streaking--which was just getting rid of a hangup inherited energetically from my mother--she was very prudish)and resulted in being arrested, drugged in hineous ways (torture) and locked up in a mental hospital. i tried several times to commit suicide but wasnt too clear in the head when trying--another time i was saved by a ´´miracle´´ eventually i met a remarkable man, willy perizonius,dutch, a student of The Mother and Sri Aurobindo, who cured me in a matter of minutes--a miracle, though they (S.A. and The Mother)say there are no miracles without a method. I was very very lucky--most people with my condition succeed in suicide (70 pct) the rest(20pct)survive with help of friends and medication, 10pct is ´´cured´´ .He stopped my psychosis and he gave me tools to deal with it if it recurred. All that took maybe ten minutes...un f.uck.ing-believable...true love, and true power, wisdom and Knowledge about what vibrations constitute a human being.He told me he was at the same level as Jesus, but had a different job to do. no wonder, that when later i considered taking up a spiritual discipline, i looked at Sri Aurobindo, even though i may not have been a particularly suitable candidate for his yoga, as it is not an easy thing...but i got free, apparently a rare thing here. In integral yoga it is the starting point. ´´Sri Aurobindo or The Adventure of Consciousness´´ by Satprem ´´On the way to Supermanhood´´ also by Satprem free downloads online.not recommended.will change your whole outlook.dangerous books.especially for advaita addicts.
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Post by seaside on Aug 22, 2014 11:09:12 GMT -5
I only know myself as a human entity; the scene, so to speak, of thoughts and affections; and am sensible of a certain doubleness by which I can stand as remote from myself as from another. However intense my experience, I am conscious of the presence of a part of me, which, as it were, is not a part of me, but spectator, sharing no experience, but taking note of it, and that is no more I than it is you. By a conscious effort of the mind we can stand aloof from actions and their consequences; and all things, good and bad, go by us like a torrent. Nice tidbit, seaside.......I, too, have had those kind of experiences, plus the OOBE type. I really like the way you expressed it in the last sentence, "By a conscious effort of the mind we can stand aloof from actions and their consequences; and all things, good and bad, go by us like a torrent," that was beautifully poetic. Silver, This is actually a passage from Thoreau's "Walden". I'm glad to know that you appreciate it. I posted it because I was curious as to who would recognize it. And also, the passage describes the way I have felt for most of my life. However, it was at a Zen retreat several years ago that I realized that this "spectator" "scene" was me. Since then, being the "spectator" has become my "practice", my "meditation", and my way of life. As the years pass, more and more, me seems to becomes ME as the observer and observed merge into ME--the eternal timeless presence of pure BEING becoming aware of itself.
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Post by laughter on Aug 22, 2014 15:34:06 GMT -5
Nice tidbit, seaside.......I, too, have had those kind of experiences, plus the OOBE type. I really like the way you expressed it in the last sentence, "By a conscious effort of the mind we can stand aloof from actions and their consequences; and all things, good and bad, go by us like a torrent," that was beautifully poetic. Silver, This is actually a passage from Thoreau's "Walden". I'm glad to know that you appreciate it. I posted it because I was curious as to who would recognize it. And also, the passage describes the way I have felt for most of my life. However, it was at a Zen retreat several years ago that I realized that this "spectator" "scene" was me. Since then, being the "spectator" has become my "practice", my "meditation", and my way of life. As the years pass, more and more, me seems to becomes ME as the observer and observed merge into ME--the eternal timeless presence of pure BEING becoming aware of itself. Nice to hear from you 'side.
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Post by enigma on Aug 22, 2014 19:56:59 GMT -5
In the early days of the Iraqi war a small group of US contractors were taken hostage. In a later video of the hostages released to the media, one particular hostage stood out for his calm and complete lack of concern about the situation, while the other hostages were clearly worried. It turns out that in the end all of the hostages were killed...but one. Inexplicably, the captors released the same unconcerned hostage completely unharmed. I sometimes tell the occasional lady that if she were ever put in a position such as Quinn described, that if she were to have an attitude of calm, unconcern about it, she would likely disarm her attacker as a result. I've gotten some interesting looks along the way with that suggestion. But there is definitely something to be said about putting up emotional resistance to dangerous situations and empowering that danger, whereas non-resistence seems to have the effect of minimizing or dissolving danger. I first learned about this in my early twenties when someone much bigger and stronger came to harm me at my house and intuitively dealing with it without anger or upset. I watched in complete surprise and gratefulness when he began to literally melt and fall into my couch before my eyes, drained of ability and, as they say, dazed and confused. He too kept apologizing. I ended up making him a cup of coffee and giving him a ride home. Never saw him again after that. The only general advice I would give is to trust your gut. In some situations, the only hope of survival is to get away or not get into a situation that feels 'off' in the first place. A hard thing for most women as we're conditioned to be acquiescent (although that seems to be changing - let's hope!). I don't know how I acted after 'I' wasn't there, but he did change at some point. Drove me to town instead of leaving me in the Florida woods after dark (not a place to be walking) and was full of apology. It could have gone very differently, and in this case maybe it did have to do with non-resistance. At the time, though, being fully identified with my thoughts and actions, it was difficult to live with the extreme sense of powerlessness that came out of it. The weight of that began to tip the scale as to which was better - to die fighting or live in a mental prison. I'd be careful about general advice to not resist, especially to women. As I see it, rape is more about control than it is about sex, and so there is a need for some sort of resistance to push against in order to experience that. In the apparent absence of this resistance, the dynamic is likely to change, but it's hard to say how it might change. It may move away from violence or toward an escalation of violence. It's unpredictable because the individual in question may be sociopathic or be dealing with other complex emotional issues, so I agree that advice is difficult. However, if resistance is chosen, it may need to be disabling or lethal, as anything short of that will likely be met with escalating force. (Just opinion. I don't mean to position myself as an expert.)
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Post by justlikeyou on Aug 22, 2014 20:04:53 GMT -5
As I see it, rape is more about control than it is about sex, and so there is a need for some sort of resistance to push against in order to experience that. In the apparent absence of this resistance, the dynamic is likely to change, but it's hard to say how it might change. It may move away from violence or toward an escalation of violence. It's unpredictable because the individual in question may be sociopathic or be dealing with other complex emotional issues, so I agree that advice is difficult. However, if resistance is chosen, it may need to be disabling or lethal, as anything short of that will likely be met with escalating force. (Just opinion. I don't mean to position myself as an expert.) That seems a pretty spot on understanding of the dynamics involved. Not bad for a non-expert.
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