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Post by laughter on Jun 25, 2014 10:58:42 GMT -5
The current consensus on deep human history as told by archeology, anthropology and genetics tells an interesting story with a few likely points where the changing environment caused bottlenecks in the population. These periods of stress drove the process of evolution and it was likely one of these turning points -- volcanic eruptions, droughts in East Africa, ice-age transitions and several other suspects -- at which the sense of separate self emerged.When the environment is trying to kill you, it's a survival advantage to go to war with it. That worked quite well for us as long as the planet was vast compared to the species. We kept multiplying as other species that had specialized went extinct. Eventually, the success of the strategy had to lead to it's end, as the war was never not with ourselves. My a$s is 20-20! No glasses!
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Post by topology on Jun 25, 2014 12:11:04 GMT -5
My a$s is 20-20! No glasses! Well maybe you need them to help you see that an ego is not a good survival tool during a cataclysmic event. The ego tends to dull sensitivities to instinct and intuition, faculties essential for surviving when the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket. Accessing those faculties is more of a surrender of the ego than using it. I agree with Enigma that ego likely developed along with language. I would add to the mix the context of hunting and needing to use language to coordinate and distinguish between self and other. Well, that is my contribution to this gaseous indulgence.
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Post by laughter on Jun 25, 2014 12:51:56 GMT -5
Well, that is my contribution to this gaseous indulgence. It's TMT from the point where the subject of evolution is introduced as the topic of conversation, no doubt. My a$s is 20-20! No glasses! Well maybe you need them to help you see that an ego is not a good survival tool during a cataclysmic event. The ego tends to dull sensitivities to instinct and intuition, faculties essential for surviving when the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket. Accessing those faculties is more of a surrender of the ego than using it. I agree with Enigma that ego likely developed along with language. I would add to the mix the context of hunting and needing to use language to coordinate and distinguish between self and other. Without language and communicating mind-to-mind with separate peeps there's no complex of culture and with no cultural complex the environments where peeps can live are quite limited. The question of the sense of separation, like the question of the subject-object split, leads the conversation quite rapidly into a point of apparent contradiction. For instance, the vast majority of individuals would likely die rather quickly if isolated from their culture, and at the root of that culture, which sustains them as an individual, is this artifact - language - that you agree is at the root of the sense of separation of the individual.
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Post by enigma on Jun 25, 2014 13:29:57 GMT -5
Well, that is my contribution to this gaseous indulgence. It's TMT from the point where the subject of evolution is introduced as the topic of conversation, no doubt. Well maybe you need them to help you see that an ego is not a good survival tool during a cataclysmic event. The ego tends to dull sensitivities to instinct and intuition, faculties essential for surviving when the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket. Accessing those faculties is more of a surrender of the ego than using it. I agree with Enigma that ego likely developed along with language. I would add to the mix the context of hunting and needing to use language to coordinate and distinguish between self and other. Without language and communicating mind-to-mind with separate peeps there's no complex of culture and with no cultural complex the environments where peeps can live are quite limited. The question of the sense of separation, like the question of the subject-object split, leads the conversation quite rapidly into a point of apparent contradiction. For instance, the vast majority of individuals would likely die rather quickly if isolated from their culture, and at the root of that culture, which sustains them as an individual, is this artifact - language - that you agree is at the root of the sense of separation of the individual. I don't think language is at the root of the sense of separation. I think self awareness is, but self awareness would only occur in a mind capable of abstract conceptualization such as self and other, and symbolic representations such as language.
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Post by laughter on Jun 25, 2014 14:02:52 GMT -5
It's TMT from the point where the subject of evolution is introduced as the topic of conversation, no doubt. Without language and communicating mind-to-mind with separate peeps there's no complex of culture and with no cultural complex the environments where peeps can live are quite limited. The question of the sense of separation, like the question of the subject-object split, leads the conversation quite rapidly into a point of apparent contradiction. For instance, the vast majority of individuals would likely die rather quickly if isolated from their culture, and at the root of that culture, which sustains them as an individual, is this artifact - language - that you agree is at the root of the sense of separation of the individual. I don't think language is at the root of the sense of separation. I think self awareness is, but self awareness would only occur in a mind capable of abstract conceptualization such as self and other, and symbolic representations such as language. What peeps that study deep pre-history think they know about the timeline is sort of kind of interesting as it applies to this idea of a "Golden Age". We're never likely to know exactly how long ago it was or what the precise set of steps that happened that led out of it or what the exact state of the species was during it. Essentially, it's a metaphorical myth, but one that sort of reflects WIBIGO on a grand scale. The interplay between the concepts of ego, language and self-awareness (sense of separate self) isn't simple.
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Post by enigma on Jun 25, 2014 14:43:37 GMT -5
I don't think language is at the root of the sense of separation. I think self awareness is, but self awareness would only occur in a mind capable of abstract conceptualization such as self and other, and symbolic representations such as language. What peeps that study deep pre-history think they know about the timeline is sort of kind of interesting as it applies to this idea of a "Golden Age". We're never likely to know exactly how long ago it was or what the precise set of steps that happened that led out of it or what the exact state of the species was during it. Essentially, it's a metaphorical myth, but one that sort of reflects WIBIGO on a grand scale. The interplay between the concepts of ego, language and self-awareness (sense of separate self) isn't simple.I guess it's not. It seems like they would all arise together over time.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 26, 2014 5:25:16 GMT -5
Most believers 'can't see the forest for all of the trees in the way', and if you engage them about the trees they see, they dissect that with existential theology..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 5:28:39 GMT -5
Most believers ' can't see the forest for all of the trees in the way', and if you engage them about the trees they see, they dissect that with existential theology.. HOW MANY YOU APPROACHED? edit: sorry if caps lock caught you as it caught me just then. Not shouting @ya!
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 26, 2014 6:04:41 GMT -5
Most believers ' can't see the forest for all of the trees in the way', and if you engage them about the trees they see, they dissect that with existential theology.. HOW MANY YOU APPROACHED? edit: sorry if caps lock caught you as it caught me just then. Not shouting @ya! Many, i don't have a specific number, many..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 6:20:21 GMT -5
HOW MANY YOU APPROACHED? edit: sorry if caps lock caught you as it caught me just then. Not shouting @ya! Many, i don't have a specific number, many.. Many chased me down the street shouting@the top of their voices:I having questioned the story teller who said, "Jesus made my leg grow longer." when he was saved.
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Post by tenka on Jul 27, 2014 13:44:54 GMT -5
Love is the make up of everything . The I am is the medium for one too love and be loved . Things happen that seemingly break the connection in reflection of I am and you are . One cannot create what is already there but one can seemingly connect and disconnect to that which is present .
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Post by tenka on Jul 27, 2014 13:45:16 GMT -5
double whammy
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