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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 4, 2015 10:50:22 GMT -5
Hey gopal, I think this is pretty accurate, except. When Paul first met Peter, Peter pretty-much said, Dude!, these guys are never going to believe you are a Christian, man! just "yesterday" you were trying to kill us, you need to get the hell out of Dodge or they will probably "skin you alive". So Paul listened, and the NT says he went to Arabia for 14 years and there he learned the stuff he later taught (alone, inwardly, by Jesus, as it were). After that Paul went to the church at Jerusalem and patched things up with everybody, IOW he was accepted by Peter and James and the others. Paul obviously taught stuff Jesus didn't teach. It seems peculiar to me that this was the plan all along, that Paul who never knew Jesus would explain what the life and death of Jesus was all about. For this reason I have to put the teaching of Jesus above the teaching of Paul. If you remove the teaching of paul from Bible, then there is no Christianity, Because the meaning of crucifixion and resurrection comes from teaching of paul, I did not say paul was taught by peter about the meaning of Salvation, Paul knows life of Jesus and many things about Jesus by Peter. No paul No Christianity. Paul is the backbone of Christianity. I'm not throwing out Paul, I agree that we wouldn't have the Christianity we have today without Paul. But I just posted in reply to silver what I mean. Christianity has thrown out what Jesus taught. How can that be any kind of Christianity? So, I will say again, I put what Jesus taught above what Paul taught. The closest (outer) church to what Jesus taught is The Eastern Orthodox Church. But it seems that laughter doesn't want us on his thread.
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Post by silver on Apr 4, 2015 10:56:07 GMT -5
Well...as it stands, what exactly is it about Christ's life that you are wanting to replicate now? It is reported in the gospels that Jesus said: The things I do, you can do.....and you will do if you are a follower of me. For me that's the proof of real Christianity. Thomas Jefferson made his own Bible. He actually cut up the Bible and cut out all the supernatural stuff and made what's now called the Jefferson Bible. An actual replication of it is pretty expensive, I think around $50.00. I don't thrown out anything. So healing people would be nice. There was a woman with an issue of blood (you women will know about this, something was wrong with her menstrual cycle, it would stop). She decided if she could just touch Jesus, she would be healed. Jesus was charged with energy, and her faith touching him was like plugging into an electrical outlet. Scripture says when she touched Jesus, energy flowed out of him and into her, and healed her. And Jesus, of course, felt the energy flow out and said, who touched me? Jesus had precognition. He knew he had a date with the woman at the well, so he went out of his way and into a land Jews didn't visit. (John 4). Jesus had telepathy. When he met Nathaniel, he told him what he had been doing earlier that day, sitting under a fig tree, and told him what he had been thinking (we aren't told what it was, but from the exchange, we know that Nathaniel knew that Jesus knew). Jesus could see into the hearts of men. The Pharisees were thought to be great and holy men, because they kept the law meticulously, they tithed even from their spice garden. But Jesus knew that it was all for show, he knew that most of the Pharisees were only interested in power. But he also knew two Pharisees who really were interested in spirituality, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea. That's off the top of my head, but read everything Jesus did. He said we could do and should do the same, if we were really his followers. Yes, that's good stuff. More and more these days, I see the Buddha and Christ as almost an overlay one of the other they're so similar ... the surface stories about their lives are different but their effects on their worlds are very similar. They both could bring people to their knees when they realized what they were saying were like laser -insightful. They both had the ability to help others look at their beliefs with incredible clarity. The Buddha's stories don't include physical healings that I know of, but I think the psychological healings would eventually lead to physical ones. They both changed thousands of lives in their life times. Fwiw.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 10:59:32 GMT -5
I could understand your beautiful heart laughter,please do not forget the fact that 'we are not enemy since we argue about some opposing idea'. So I never stand against your thread creation and expressing your opinion. Thank you gopal, and please don't take my refusal to accept your proof as disrespect of your beliefs for the sake of disrespecting your personally, it's just an honest opinion, and I'd never lie to you! Absolutely I trust you Laughter.
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Post by laughter on Apr 4, 2015 11:03:37 GMT -5
Thank you gopal, and please don't take my refusal to accept your proof as disrespect of your beliefs for the sake of disrespecting your personally, it's just an honest opinion, and I'd never lie to you! Absolutely I trust you Laughter. Thanks man, I'll do my best to continue to earn that.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 4, 2015 11:04:28 GMT -5
It is reported in the gospels that Jesus said: The things I do, you can do.....and you will do if you are a follower of me. For me that's the proof of real Christianity. Thomas Jefferson made his own Bible. He actually cut up the Bible and cut out all the supernatural stuff and made what's now called the Jefferson Bible. An actual replication of it is pretty expensive, I think around $50.00. I don't thrown out anything. So healing people would be nice. There was a woman with an issue of blood (you women will know about this, something was wrong with her menstrual cycle, it would stop). She decided if she could just touch Jesus, she would be healed. Jesus was charged with energy, and her faith touching him was like plugging into an electrical outlet. Scripture says when she touched Jesus, energy flowed out of him and into her, and healed her. And Jesus, of course, felt the energy flow out and said, who touched me? Jesus had precognition. He knew he had a date with the woman at the well, so he went out of his way and into a land Jews didn't visit. (John 4). Jesus had telepathy. When he met Nathaniel, he told him what he had been doing earlier that day, sitting under a fig tree, and told him what he had been thinking (we aren't told what it was, but from the exchange, we know that Nathaniel knew that Jesus knew). Jesus could see into the hearts of men. The Pharisees were thought to be great and holy men, because they kept the law meticulously, they tithed even from their spice garden. But Jesus knew that it was all for show, he knew that most of the Pharisees were only interested in power. But he also knew two Pharisees who really were interested in spirituality, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea. That's off the top of my head, but read everything Jesus did. He said we could do and should do the same, if we were really his followers. Yes, that's good stuff. More and more these days, I see the Buddha and Christ as almost an overlay one of the other they're so similar ... the surface stories about their lives are different but their effects on their worlds are very similar. They both could bring people to their knees when they realized what they were saying were like laser -insightful. They both had the ability to help others look at their beliefs with incredible clarity. The Buddha's stories don't include physical healings that I know of, but I think the psychological healings would eventually lead to physical ones. They both changed thousands of lives in their life times. Fwiw. Yes, I put Buddha way up there, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Socrates.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 15:40:03 GMT -5
So what is resurrected? To me, dying before I die sounds like an absence and not a transcendence. Christians don't really realize they have somewhat a paradox in believing a literal resurrection. Even Biblical reposts describe the resurrected body of Jesus as being different from a normal physical body. Jesus could appear and disappear at will, that's something more than just physical resurrection. Now, of course, Christians know this, but disregard the paradox. I'm going to have to say that body isn't a physical body. Just a added note here. Many years ago I just happened to go to a Unitarian Church on Easter once. It was kind of funny. The Pastor stood up and said, more or less, Yea, folks, Easter is a peculiar day for us, as we don't believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus. The congregation laughed. Sure, so what is non-literally resurrected?
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Post by zin on Apr 4, 2015 15:50:17 GMT -5
Only a little related: I don't believe in death, so, no resurrection.. but I don't know where to put the body in this.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 1:16:40 GMT -5
If you remove the teaching of paul from Bible, then there is no Christianity, Because the meaning of crucifixion and resurrection comes from teaching of paul, I did not say paul was taught by peter about the meaning of Salvation, Paul knows life of Jesus and many things about Jesus by Peter. No paul No Christianity. Paul is the backbone of Christianity. I'm not throwing out Paul, I agree that we wouldn't have the Christianity we have today without Paul. But I just posted in reply to silver what I mean. Christianity has thrown out what Jesus taught. How can that be any kind of Christianity? So, I will say again, I put what Jesus taught above what Paul taught. The closest (outer) church to what Jesus taught is The Eastern Orthodox Church. But it seems that laughter doesn't want us on his thread. Nobody whom with Jesus has expected the crucifixion, Or they do not know the truth, that has been kept secret, because that has to happen, Once it happen, the meaning of crucifixion and resurrection has been revealed to Paul, That was the foremost reason there was a conflict between peter and paul, Peter was trying to influence action based salvation, Paul admonishes him about this mistake, and he tells him that salvation comes through faith not through action.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 13:38:50 GMT -5
coconut peep cake.. yum
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Post by laughter on Apr 5, 2015 20:08:02 GMT -5
coconut peep cake.. yum no u dint'
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Post by laughter on Apr 5, 2015 20:12:40 GMT -5
Only a little related: I don't believe in death, so, no resurrection.. but I don't know where to put the body in this. That's why Jesus made space so wide and vast, so you'd have lots of options.
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Post by zin on Apr 6, 2015 6:09:39 GMT -5
Only a little related: I don't believe in death, so, no resurrection.. but I don't know where to put the body in this. That's why Jesus made space so wide and vast, so you'd have lots of options. I wish to quote from a poem by Rilke here, it just seemed good to do so: "God speaks to each of us as he makes us, then walks with us silently out of the night. These are words we dimly hear: You, sent out beyond your recall, go to the limits of your longing. Embody me. Flare up like flame and make big shadows I can move in." . . (translation Anita Barrows and Joanna Macy)
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Post by silver on Apr 6, 2015 10:10:12 GMT -5
coconut peep cake.. yum Dear God, you could feed a small army with that cake!
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Post by laughter on Apr 6, 2015 10:12:05 GMT -5
That's why Jesus made space so wide and vast, so you'd have lots of options. I wish to quote from a poem by Rilke here, it just seemed good to do so: "God speaks to each of us as he makes us, then walks with us silently out of the night. These are words we dimly hear: You, sent out beyond your recall, go to the limits of your longing. Embody me. Flare up like flame and make big shadows I can move in." . . (translation Anita Barrows and Joanna Macy) A dancing lightness you can find as old cobwebs they unwind the ones that used to pull and bind and sticky-glue the wheels of mind In that freedom there is space no worry fret or any race it is your arms that do embrace that spacious void that leaves no trace The walls that used to hide you here melt away and leave no fear don't be surprised to shed a tear for joy that echos far and near
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Post by enigma on Apr 7, 2015 21:23:10 GMT -5
I know enough about the process of how the Bible was written and assembled and the institutions that made use of it down through the ages to have a healthy skepticism about taking any of it literally. I know, for instance, that the earliest any fragment of writings that was incorporated has been substantiated to decades after the crucifixion and that for most of it the trail leaves off past the turn of the 1st century. I also know that many of the stories in both the old and new testaments are carbon copies of other stories that were circulating around the fertile crescent, Persia and Asia minor for millennia prior -- the virgin birth being a stellar example. But you see, that's simply beside the point. I didn't say that I could prove that the resurrection didn't happen. You keep on resorting to various forms of logical fallacy as a way to discredit me, but it's all a distraction. I simply asked you if you could prove if the resurrection was fact, and I don't find your evidence convincing. Do you have any specifics of an intellectual debate with those other's that I've lost? I don't think so. And you completely misunderstand my reference to devotion. True faith doesn't require proof, that's why it's devotional. It's just love and surrender to God, no debate necessary. If you couldn't prove resurrection did not happen, then why the hell are you talking something like 'Nothing is resurrected. It's a metaphor.' ? Or Do you even open this thread to talk about that? You do not know the certainty,right? I thought you had a strong interest in logic. Do you understand it's not possible to prove a negative? (i.e. there are no unicorns)
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