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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 13:17:43 GMT -5
I don't see that black dot as being finite. I was a little kid when the first tv sets arrived, so you get to see that black dot getting bigger or getting smaller and disappearing altogether....circles are special that way, so when anyone sees a circle, you can't help but think of infinity right away. That might explain why Hillig's illustration doesn't work for you.
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Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 13:19:47 GMT -5
I don't see that black dot as being finite. I was a little kid when the first tv sets arrived, so you get to see that black dot getting bigger or getting smaller and disappearing altogether....circles are special that way, so when anyone sees a circle, you can't help but think of infinity right away. That might explain why Hillig's illustration doesn't work for you. Yeah.......not to mention the corniness.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 21, 2013 13:38:21 GMT -5
With this logic it's perfectly consistent that white space and black dot could be separate in the strongest ontological sense. You're basically saying that it's consistent that there is a finite white space, just hanging in existence all on its own. Then why not say the same of the black dot? And why not say the same of both the black dot and the white space? I don't see myself basically saying that. That could be a conclusion. It could also be a conclusion that the whitespace is infinite. Personally, I just leave it as an unknown. It is not necessary to conclude one way or the other. You don't believe that. You can't cherry pick in this game.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 21, 2013 13:39:54 GMT -5
And where can I get the Zizek-for-dummies for absolute not kidding boneheads? Youtube vids.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 13:57:17 GMT -5
I don't see myself basically saying that. That could be a conclusion. It could also be a conclusion that the whitespace is infinite. Personally, I just leave it as an unknown. It is not necessary to conclude one way or the other. You don't believe that. You can't cherry pick in this game. Impeccable logic is your game not mine. I'm picking cherries.
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Post by laughter on Nov 21, 2013 14:47:48 GMT -5
The definition of the real is that which resists symbolization This sentence is self-contradictory.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 21, 2013 15:40:07 GMT -5
The definition of the real is that which resists symbolization This sentence is self-contradictory. Read the rest of the post.
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Post by laughter on Nov 21, 2013 15:47:30 GMT -5
This sentence is self-contradictory. Read the rest of the post. don't need to
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Post by zendancer on Nov 21, 2013 17:20:21 GMT -5
Invitation to draw (describe) a schematic / composite (NAT): What's it really like to live a non-dual/ata/etc. life -- interior / internal ? It's just that before I die (um, I mean my body), I'd like to comprehend in some fashion the above ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^, would be nice. Thanks in advance for your input. Silver: For most people who become self realized the only significant difference is that seeking comes to an end. The universe, manifesting as a particular body/mind, sees through the illusion of personhood, and realizes that what one IS IS "what is." This means that doership isn't owned by a someone, a "me." It is then seen that the relative and the absolute are one and the same, and the body/mind can relax and go about its business without all the past reflectiveness associated with the idea of there being someone "inside" separate from a universe "outside." For most people there seems to be more impartial witnessing than in the past, and in general things aren't taken as personally as in the past. Because the idea that there is a little person inside controlling what happens, and being responsible for what happens, is seen to be false, "checking" thoughts are significantly absent. Most people who actively search for the truth make what seems like personal effort to control thinking, stop thinking, or shift attention away from thinking. After realization, there is no longer any reason to be concerned about thinking because it is realized that the thinker is not who/what it was thought to be. This results in a more relaxed attitude toward thinking. Afterwards, if the body/mind meditates, or sits in silence, it is just how the universe happens to manifest. After realizing that every other body/mind is also one-with "what is," there can be a greater sense of empathy and communion with other people, but there doesn't have to be. Although a few people may be significantly changed by realization, I suspect that most are not. Most people probably keep doing whatever they were previously doing, but without thinking that they are in any way separate from "what is." There is probably greater acceptance of "what is" as it is, and less internal resistance than before because one sees a bigger picture than before. It is like standing back, psychologically, and seeing the forest more often than the trees. Most people who become realized lose their fear of death because they see that what they ARE is a field of being rather than a person. The body/mind still has its interests, inclinations, likes, and dislikes; it still has good days and bad days; it still cares about what happens; it still stays involved in various kinds of relationships; and it still has a personality. Realized people tend to associate with other people who are interested in truth, and friendships may change as a result of this. Other than the few differences mentioned above, life continues pretty much as before, but without any seeking. The body/mind goes to work, plays sports, watches TV, socializes, and does the kind of things it did in the past, but without the tons of thoughts that used to revolve around the idea of a "me." I hope this answers your question.
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Post by silence on Nov 21, 2013 17:25:08 GMT -5
Invitation to draw (describe) a schematic / composite (NAT): What's it really like to live a non-dual/ata/etc. life -- interior / internal ? It's just that before I die (um, I mean my body), I'd like to comprehend in some fashion the above ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^, would be nice. Thanks in advance for your input. I have no idea what a non-dual life is. If you're asking what people are going on and on about here on this forum, it's simple. All the fancy talk is addressing how you create mental division, take it to be more than it is and torture yourself endlessly. What is there to say about one's life when they don't create pointless suffering for themselves? It's just a life no different than any other minus the self inflicted wounds.
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Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 17:32:18 GMT -5
Thanks ZD for answering my question - one Im sure you've responded to many times before.
This part:
I sort of understand, but lots of people kick around ideas about small-t truth and large-T Truth, without my being able to get what they're on about. Truth of any kind is pretty slippery in my book, so I tend to not put a whole lot of stock in anybody's truth, tbh.
I generally understand your explanation, but I guess what I'm coming to see as a more important part came up earlier today -- that thing about the void being an idea -- is it some imagined thing that some people come unglued about or is it some real part of one's spirit or soul or ?
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Post by hybrid on Nov 21, 2013 19:18:02 GMT -5
Invitation to draw (describe) a schematic / composite (NAT): What's it really like to live a non-dual/ata/etc. life -- interior / internal ? It's just that before I die (um, I mean my body), I'd like to comprehend in some fashion the above ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^, would be nice. Thanks in advance for your input. 1. - stop thinking if it isn't necessary. 2. - be aware at all times.
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Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 19:21:31 GMT -5
Invitation to draw (describe) a schematic / composite (NAT): What's it really like to live a non-dual/ata/etc. life -- interior / internal ? It's just that before I die (um, I mean my body), I'd like to comprehend in some fashion the above ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^, would be nice. Thanks in advance for your input. 1. - stop thinking if it isn't necessary. 2. - be aware at all times. Hey, thanks, hybrid. That was short and to the point!
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Post by zendancer on Nov 21, 2013 19:40:23 GMT -5
Thanks ZD for answering my question - one Im sure you've responded to many times before. This part: I sort of understand, but lots of people kick around ideas about small-t truth and large-T Truth, without my being able to get what they're on about. Truth of any kind is pretty slippery in my book, so I tend to not put a whole lot of stock in anybody's truth, tbh. I generally understand your explanation, but I guess what I'm coming to see as a more important part came up earlier today -- that thing about the void being an idea -- is it some imagined thing that some people come unglued about or is it some real part of one's spirit or soul or ? "The void" is just a phrase pointing to the emptiness, unknowability, and mysteriousness of "what is." This morning I woke up thinking about a stock that I had bought a few days earlier. It hadn't met any of my usual criteria for buying a stock, and I bought it for some reasons that now seem imprudent, if not outright ridiculous. After breakfast, I set up a limit sell order to unload the stock at a $1200 loss (over 4 days), and then I went to hike a mountain trail. As I started hiking, I thought, "I need to get back to the motel by the time the stock market opens so that I can make sure that I've unloaded this idiotic stock." I calculated when I would need to turn around on the trail in order to get back to a computer at the time the market opened. (If the stock had opened at a lower price than my sell order, I would need to have entered a new market sell order to rid myself of it.) I hiked to the point in time when I needed to turn around, and was then surprised to discover that the body was continuing to hike. "Well," I thought, "it looks like that earlier idea about turning around was just another crazy idea." Ha ha. Then, this second idea appeared: "I guess the body/mind is not that worried about the sell order. If it doesn't execute, then the stock will be sold at whatever value its at when the body gets back to a computer." The body kept hiking without knowing where it would turn around. After another mile or so, the body slowed down, stopped, turned around, hiked back to the car, drove back to the motel, and learned that the stock had been sold at the pre-determined price because the stock had rebounded from its previous low. I had sold every share of the stock except one. I kept one share just to remind myself not to do something so equally stupid in the future. Ha ha. This is the void.
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Post by silver on Nov 21, 2013 19:43:25 GMT -5
Ahhh. The Field.
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