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Post by lolly on Nov 16, 2013 20:35:22 GMT -5
Why can't do anything about it?
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Post by lolly on Nov 16, 2013 20:35:33 GMT -5
Why can't do anything about it?
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Post by enigma on Nov 17, 2013 1:06:09 GMT -5
The real question is, why can't do anything about it?
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Post by earnest on Nov 17, 2013 3:06:34 GMT -5
Why can't do anything about it? Do anything about greed?
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Post by lolly on Nov 17, 2013 3:26:18 GMT -5
Why can't do anything about it? Do anything about greed? Yeah... why not do something about it?
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Post by earnest on Nov 17, 2013 6:36:44 GMT -5
Yeah... why not do something about it? On the spot *doing* seems fine. If someone right now is taking 5 bits of cake and the sign says 1 only, fine, tell them to piss off and smack the cake out of their hand and on to the floor - bam! - and then go about your bizness, free and undisturbed It's this prattling on about amorphous, non-specific, "greed" that isn't happening now - like bellyaching about how many cars Osho used ride in – that I have an issue with. Getting into that game seems like an utter waste of time. actually, beyond a waste. i was thinking about this in the car the other day. The image that came to mind was that I would rather eat a bucket of plastic army men than play up some mental headfick about how wonderful the world would be if only there was no greed. Action is fine, it's the "...oh the world would be so perfect if we could all just get along" that makes me puke in my mouth a little. This came out a little stronger than I intended,.
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Post by quinn on Nov 17, 2013 9:25:25 GMT -5
This came out a little stronger than I intended,. Haha! Actually laughed out loud with that. Everything you said is true, though. It's just another version of "If x were really y, then I could be happy." Then to ask, "What are you doing to make y happen?" completes the diversionary tactic and off we go.
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Post by silence on Nov 17, 2013 11:11:35 GMT -5
Yeah... why not do something about it? On the spot *doing* seems fine. If someone right now is taking 5 bits of cake and the sign says 1 only, fine, tell them to piss off and smack the cake out of their hand and on to the floor - bam! - and then go about your bizness, free and undisturbed It's this prattling on about amorphous, non-specific, "greed" that isn't happening now - like bellyaching about how many cars Osho used ride in – that I have an issue with. Getting into that game seems like an utter waste of time. actually, beyond a waste. i was thinking about this in the car the other day. The image that came to mind was that I would rather eat a bucket of plastic army men than play up some mental headfick about how wonderful the world would be if only there was no greed. Action is fine, it's the "...oh the world would be so perfect if we could all just get along" that makes me puke in my mouth a little. This came out a little stronger than I intended,. The desire for a perfect world is itself a form of greed. As is the desire for enlightenment.
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 17, 2013 20:38:24 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. It is the illusion that some people are attached to.. if that were the case, it would be difficult to explain the process of electricity arriving at your room, or all of the necessities not directly produced and made by 'you'.. it is necessary to reject what is actually happening and accept an imagined illusion to 'believe' that nothing exists except what you are aware of.. notably, it would be expeditious to simply not notice or be aware of traffic so that it didn't exist and you could stroll across the freeway.. Be well.. Right now, I've got a coin in front of me, heads facing up. In my direct experience, right now, without beliefs, there is no tails. When I turn it over, the reverse is true - tails is facing up and there is no heads. I could spend all day turning the coin over, heads appearing then disappearing as tails appears. This is the direct experience. You know that's not what is actually happening, right? you're playing mind/word-games to try to make a point that is not meaningful to the exploration of reality.. Be well..
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Post by earnest on Nov 17, 2013 21:13:55 GMT -5
Greetings.. Right now, I've got a coin in front of me, heads facing up. In my direct experience, right now, without beliefs, there is no tails. When I turn it over, the reverse is true - tails is facing up and there is no heads. I could spend all day turning the coin over, heads appearing then disappearing as tails appears. This is the direct experience. You know that's not what is actually happening, right? you're playing mind/word-games to try to make a point that is not meaningful to the exploration of reality.. Be well.. I'm talking about my direct experience. I don't see how that's playing word or mind games. Even if I put the coin in the palm of my hand, I still only experience the single side of it (and perhaps an edge). at most I could say that there is now coolness where the coin appears to be located. Now of course at another level I know the coin has two sides. Trying to argue against it at that level is foolish. As is (I think) some business about not being aware of traffic is somehow going to protect you crossing the freeway, or that knowing or not knowing what the picture on the wall near your computer is proves anything of consequence. What I'm saying is that in my experience, there is something really interesting going on at the most basic everyday level of experience BEFORE there are thoughts about it.
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 18, 2013 6:11:02 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. You know that's not what is actually happening, right? you're playing mind/word-games to try to make a point that is not meaningful to the exploration of reality.. Be well.. I'm talking about my direct experience. I don't see how that's playing word or mind games. Even if I put the coin in the palm of my hand, I still only experience the single side of it (and perhaps an edge). at most I could say that there is now coolness where the coin appears to be located. Now of course at another level I know the coin has two sides. Trying to argue against it at that level is foolish. As is (I think) some business about not being aware of traffic is somehow going to protect you crossing the freeway, or that knowing or not knowing what the picture on the wall near your computer is proves anything of consequence. What I'm saying is that in my experience, there is something really interesting going on at the most basic everyday level of experience BEFORE there are thoughts about it. Your model would have nothing prior to your 'thought', it is 'thought' that generates the 'description' of a "basic everyday level of experience".. prior to 'thought' there is simply isness, and yes, isness is.... "interesting" is a thought/description about isness.. it is my understanding that the vast majority of spiritual/philosophical thinking should be avoided, like imagining that the other side of the coin doesn't exist in order to support other imaginings.. it distracts the mind from relaxing into the 'isness', becoming still quiet and alert/alive in the moment of the happening.. Be well..
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Post by earnest on Nov 18, 2013 6:37:33 GMT -5
Greetings.. I'm talking about my direct experience. I don't see how that's playing word or mind games. Even if I put the coin in the palm of my hand, I still only experience the single side of it (and perhaps an edge). at most I could say that there is now coolness where the coin appears to be located. Now of course at another level I know the coin has two sides. Trying to argue against it at that level is foolish. As is (I think) some business about not being aware of traffic is somehow going to protect you crossing the freeway, or that knowing or not knowing what the picture on the wall near your computer is proves anything of consequence. What I'm saying is that in my experience, there is something really interesting going on at the most basic everyday level of experience BEFORE there are thoughts about it. Your model would have nothing prior to your 'thought', it is 'thought' that generates the 'description' of a "basic everyday level of experience".. prior to 'thought' there is simply isness, and yes, isness is.... "interesting" is a thought/description about isness.. it is my understanding that the vast majority of spiritual/philosophical thinking should be avoided, like imagining that the other side of the coin doesn't exist in order to support other imaginings.. it distracts the mind from relaxing into the 'isness', becoming still quiet and alert/alive in the moment of the happening.. Be well.. It doesn't appear to be a model (but I could be completely wrong). Why do you say its a model? It doesn't appear to be a representation of anything. These days I would agree that a lot of spiritual philosophical thinking should be avoided, but with the coin, I'm just going off what is perceived at that moment. I had a similar experience reading a book to my kids. Pages either side of the one that we were on did not exist. Watching the pages arise and pass away was for me just as interesting as the story. You can pick apart the words all you like, but I'd like to see how you can show that a coin has a side other than its face, without resorting to beliefs, memory, experience etc. If I'm talking crap, then pls clearly explain why.
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Post by lolly on Nov 18, 2013 6:38:30 GMT -5
Yeah... why not do something about it? On the spot *doing* seems fine. If someone right now is taking 5 bits of cake and the sign says 1 only, fine, tell them to piss off and smack the cake out of their hand and on to the floor - bam! - and then go about your bizness, free and undisturbed :) It's this prattling on about amorphous, non-specific, "greed" that isn't happening now - like bellyaching about how many cars Osho used ride in – that I have an issue with. Getting into that game seems like an utter waste of time. actually, beyond a waste. i was thinking about this in the car the other day. The image that came to mind was that I would rather eat a bucket of plastic army men than play up some mental headfick about how wonderful the world would be if only there was no greed. Action is fine, it's the "...oh the world would be so perfect if we could all just get along" that makes me puke in my mouth a little. This came out a little stronger than I intended,. :) It's pretty obvious that greed is behind a lot of the world's problems. I think people say stuff like 'I don't care about money' until they have none to pay for food and housing, then they start to care. From our comfy Western position, perched on the meditation cushion we purchased while traveling in India... that cost about $2.35... and our cool sneakers manufactured by a kid with scabies in Bangladesh, that I paid $180 for at the mall. I mean, money talks and everything has monetary meaning, being priced. It's really a symptom where the price value is set according to how much people desire a thing times how hard that thing is to get... so if we want it really badly, and there's not enough to go around, it's expensive, so the rich access it and the poor are excluded. Mostly it's just crap that no one actually needs anyway, like Osho's 90th Roller.
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Post by silence on Nov 18, 2013 18:03:27 GMT -5
it is my understanding that the vast majority of spiritual/philosophical thinking should be avoided, like imagining that the other side of the coin doesn't exist in order to support other imaginings.. He's pointing out to you that it's the opposite. Knowing anything about the other side of the coin requires you to imagine/remember/believe that when you turn it over there will be what you expect to be there.
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Post by lolly on Nov 18, 2013 18:50:02 GMT -5
it is my understanding that the vast majority of spiritual/philosophical thinking should be avoided, like imagining that the other side of the coin doesn't exist in order to support other imaginings.. He's pointing out to you that it's the opposite. Knowing anything about the other side of the coin requires you to imagine/remember/believe that when you turn it over there will be what you expect to be there. Well, you can see one side, and feel the other side with the palm of your hand, simultaneously.
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