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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 14:54:16 GMT -5
It seems that there is no Knowing that is separate from Being, but is there Being without Knowing? Yes that's how it seems to me. There's two kinds of being without knowing: 1. Flow. __________. It's like there is no room for it (knowing). 2. Unconscious doing. Fully engrossed in the dreamstate. There is a type of knowing going on but it is fully founded on illusion so it's not the same type of knowing that, for example, Socrates is talking about when he says 'I know that I know nothing.' What about when one is internally and externally still?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 14:58:47 GMT -5
If you look at a piece of white paper with writing on half the page, and no writing on the other half of the page....all the whiteness is Being, and some of that whiteness has Knowing. The s p a c e between the l e t t e r s is Being without knowing ;-) Being/Knowing doesn't need a piece of white paper with writing on half the page, and no writing on the other half of the page to reflect it's Being/Knowing... Anymore than the Sun needs the Moon to reflect it's shine. Its a metaphor ;-).... But to what is the paper metaphor pointing? Is there any 'empty space', without knowing? Or is all space filled with Knowing? In your metaphor, which is the Being and which is the Knowing, the Sun or the Moon?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:03:39 GMT -5
It seems that there is no Knowing that is separate from Being, but is there Being without Knowing? Yes that's how it seems to me. There's two kinds of being without knowing: 1. Flow. __________. It's like there is no room for it (knowing). 2. Unconscious doing. Fully engrossed in the dreamstate. There is a type of knowing going on but it is fully founded on illusion so it's not the same type of knowing that, for example, Socrates is talking about when he says 'I know that I know nothing.' The Being/Knowing that I'm referring to is not the 'knowing' of something, but the Aware-'ness', the experience of being aware that I am aware, or rather the ' knowing' I AM.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:07:15 GMT -5
Being/Knowing doesn't need a piece of white paper with writing on half the page, and no writing on the other half of the page to reflect it's Being/Knowing... Anymore than the Sun needs the Moon to reflect it's shine. Its a metaphor ;-).... But to what is the paper metaphor pointing? Is there any 'empty space', without knowing? Or is all space filled with Knowing? In your metaphor, which is the Being and which is the Knowing, the Sun or the Moon? Metaphorically The Sun is the Being/Knowing, it doesn't need anything to reflect it's Being/Knowing. In other words Awareness is Aware of itself by being Itself
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:08:32 GMT -5
Yes that's how it seems to me. There's two kinds of being without knowing: 1. Flow. __________. It's like there is no room for it (knowing). 2. Unconscious doing. Fully engrossed in the dreamstate. There is a type of knowing going on but it is fully founded on illusion so it's not the same type of knowing that, for example, Socrates is talking about when he says 'I know that I know nothing.' The Being/Knowing that I'm referring to is not the 'knowing' of something, but the Aware-'ness', the experience of being aware that I am aware, or rather the ' knowing' I AM. Me too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:08:39 GMT -5
Yes that's how it seems to me. There's two kinds of being without knowing: 1. Flow. __________. It's like there is no room for it (knowing). 2. Unconscious doing. Fully engrossed in the dreamstate. There is a type of knowing going on but it is fully founded on illusion so it's not the same type of knowing that, for example, Socrates is talking about when he says 'I know that I know nothing.' The Being/Knowing that I'm referring to is not the 'knowing' of something, but the Aware-'ness', the experience of being aware that I am aware, or rather the ' knowing' I AM. What is there, before 'I Am'?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:09:49 GMT -5
Yes that's how it seems to me. There's two kinds of being without knowing: 1. Flow. __________. It's like there is no room for it (knowing). 2. Unconscious doing. Fully engrossed in the dreamstate. There is a type of knowing going on but it is fully founded on illusion so it's not the same type of knowing that, for example, Socrates is talking about when he says 'I know that I know nothing.' What about when one is internally and externally still? Sounds like deep sleep to me. Anything I could say about it would just be conjecture.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:10:21 GMT -5
It seems that there is no Knowing that is separate from Being, but is there Being without Knowing? Yes that's how it seems to me. There's two kinds of being without knowing: 1. Flow. __________. It's like there is no room for it (knowing). 2. Unconscious doing. Fully engrossed in the dreamstate. There is a type of knowing going on but it is fully founded on illusion so it's not the same type of knowing that, for example, Socrates is talking about when he says 'I know that I know nothing.' What, if any, is the difference between 1 and 2?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:10:48 GMT -5
The Being/Knowing that I'm referring to is not the 'knowing' of something, but the Aware-'ness', the experience of being aware that I am aware, or rather the ' knowing' I AM. What is there, before 'I Am'? Being or nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:10:58 GMT -5
The Being/Knowing that I'm referring to is not the 'knowing' of something, but the Aware-'ness', the experience of being aware that I am aware, or rather the ' knowing' I AM. What is there, before 'I Am'? The question is misconceived...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:12:37 GMT -5
What about when one is internally and externally still? Sounds like deep sleep to me. Anything I could say about it would just be conjecture. Have you ever just sat, and let yourself be totally still, inside and out? Without losing alertness like one does in deep sleep?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:15:36 GMT -5
What is there, before 'I Am'? The question is misconceived... Have you ever tried to look?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:16:26 GMT -5
The Being/Knowing that I'm referring to is not the 'knowing' of something, but the Aware-'ness', the experience of being aware that I am aware, or rather the ' knowing' I AM. Me too. So can there be two kinds of Being/Knowing or I AM then?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:19:43 GMT -5
Yes that's how it seems to me. There's two kinds of being without knowing: 1. Flow. __________. It's like there is no room for it (knowing). 2. Unconscious doing. Fully engrossed in the dreamstate. There is a type of knowing going on but it is fully founded on illusion so it's not the same type of knowing that, for example, Socrates is talking about when he says 'I know that I know nothing.' What, if any, is the difference between 1 and 2? That's a good question. One that has been percolating a while over here.; #1 is not unconscious, whereas #2 is. So what is the relationship of the knowing referred to in #1 with consciousness? #1 represents being 100% fully present. It is action and nonconceptual awareness. Perhaps one way of saying it is unreflective knowing. There is full awareness of being but no reflection going on. #2 represents being mostly absent. This is the state one becomes aware of periodically and immediately thinks "sheesh I've been lost for a while." All the while of being 'lost' there has been stuff done, being has been happening. #2 represents being engulfed in time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 15:22:16 GMT -5
The question is misconceived... Have you ever tried to look? Being/Knowing can't be comprehended by the mind, that's why questions about it are misconceived. Even to say that it is experienced isn't quite right because it is not an experience. There aren't two things there Being and Knowing, it is Being/Knowing. It's the most obvious thing when you are silent, not so much when your lost in the noise of the world.
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