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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 17:33:58 GMT -5
Who knows? Where ever God leads me. Thats how I usually operate. I just do what I do. Cool....then you're already "enlightened" ;-) Congratulations!
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 21, 2013 18:30:00 GMT -5
:-) Yes, eliminating the head is useful in as much as it can clear away the distractions of an over active mind in order to see naked reality, but in the kind of meta awareness mentioned here, the movement of the mind, the body, and the environment are seen as an integrated whole with clarity. Beyond this "meta awareness", there is a further integration of the still silent observer with the observed mind/body/environment panorama. I may very well have misunderstood SDP, and Douglass Harding and you too for that matter, (hehe) but in what I see as 'meta awareness', one is aware of the head also and is not actually 'aware' through the eyes. That's what makes it 'meta'. You are right, one is aware of the head, and not through the eyes. I specifically mentioned this because the person who posted the picture, I think it was Less Than Nothing, asked if this is what Steve meant. There was no head in the picture. I don't know if this picture specifically came from Douglas Harding (if not , he has many similar pictures), but in his "practice" On Having No Head, he goes to great lengths to show that one can't demonstrate in any manner that one actually has a head (he gets around, "I can see the tip of my nose" and "I can see my head in a mirror....etc....). I could never buy this because, I know I have a head. I can sense it and I can be aware of it. sdp
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 18:35:28 GMT -5
Cool....then you're already "enlightened" ;-) Congratulations! Heaven? It's just faith, what I have left. I've had many I guess glimpeses of what they seem to be calling enlightenment but never immortality. Why are you concerned with immortality....thats still all about an imagined future. You are alive and aware in this moment....and this moment is all that exists...the past and future are memories and imagination. Even your memories are imagination. "One theory supports the view that false memories are a result of an erroneous processing of past experience. People create an outline of proceedings and then fit in false events that corroborate with the outline to develop a recollection of the original experience. Several observations support this view. The left hemisphere specializes in generating such schemata and has the ability to put the memory into context. In an attempt to interpret pieces of information within the larger context the left hemisphere is constantly seeking meaning and reason behind events. However when presented with information that is inconsistent with the schemata, the left hemisphere unable to differentiate between true and false data constructs an artificial past in place of the original one.(4). These findings are supported by the demonstration that left prefrontal regions of the brain of normal subjects are activated when false memories are recalled. In another experiment to determine the neurological pathway involved in the creation of memory, experimenters PET scanned the brains of volunteers. It is found that while true and false memories activate the hippocampus, only true memories activate the superior temporal lobe.(2). However PET scans cannot be relied on for accuracy. False memories may be equally likely to ignite the sensory apparatus of the brain as true memories do as a result of repeated misinformation.(2). Once false memories are implanted it is often hard to rid them from memory. Yet studies have shown that propranolol, a beta blocker used in the treatment of patients with PTSD might prove to be effective in erasing false memories. Propranolol "interferes with the neurochemical pathway thought to be responsible for making emotionally arousing events more memorable- the beta adrenergic system."(5). Hence if the creation of false memories rely on activation of this system then propranolol administration could be effective in treatment of FMS. However false memories that are created as a result of fantasies or outright fabrications would be immune to the drug.(5)."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 23:49:54 GMT -5
Joe let me see if I understand your situation accurately. You don't want to try and get an education or a career because you wan't to "get enlightened" first. No not really. But in a way yeah, but mostly no. Are they going to teach me enlightenment in school. It would probably be an atempt to make me like everyone eles. Maybe without it I'll have a little different view on things that might be of value. "If you don't know don't go" that's what I read once and it sounded reasonable so I have this little rule I sort of live by. But i don't know about the rule. If you talk to me you might find out how much I don't know. Plus, I have to deal with everyone at school and study a lot. I'm getting older now although I feel like I'm still in my twenties.But you cannot ever get enlightened because enlightened folks robbed you of that chance at the precise moment of your existence where you could have gotten enlightened. Not exactly, I can still get in enlightened. But I'm on a time limit because I have a certain lifespan. Looking back I can see how receptive and trusting I was. But I got my first teacher hot and bothered because I was trying to see if she was really enlightened (at the time I was new to enlightenment) then after getting flustrated I had some realizations then she says she fell in love with me. I said, "what do I do now?" ...I'm ready to get on with whatever. Things got kind of weird but I was a let go kind of guy then. She ask if I wanted to kiss her, it would have been mean to say no. Actually it was another guy who I ask about getting enlightened and he sent me to them. He was charging $270 a month enlightenment fees and I told him I didn't have any money. So he sent me to a couple of his students that had become enlightened. This is where I think the first mistake was, he treated me "differently" than a paying customer. At the time I thought it was very nice of him but upon reflection I see things a little clearer. She was into yoga and I told her I read that there was something dark about yoga. She tought it was cool me being homeless. But she was just trying to befriend me. She later told me God was a joke only after sowing much doubt in me so it didn't work but at the time had a very negative influnce on me. I guess she got what she needed from me and now sits in bliss. I guess they all do. In a way I don't mind because I told God I wasn't after happiness but to be of service for the highest good. Somehow it's all prefect but it would jhave been nice for it to be prefect in another way. But I still hate her most of the time but sometime I love her. One loving thought cancels out hundreds of hateful thoughts because of loves power. I suppose she needed to feel she was sexy and desirable ...which she was. But it was all an act for her as I see it now. And you can't set the whole enlightenment thing aside and go after worldly success or basic housing security because: Securty is in God only. There is no securty. Where is securty?
A: You need better haircare products, better skincare products, and cosmetic surgery to look better. There seems to be a direct ratio between how attractive I feel and how I function in this world. It's probably my worst demon. We do battle all the time! But if I believe in something I can show up.And B: Because greedy enlightened people have created a paradigm where all the financial cards are stacked against you. I don't understand what you mean here.
Does that about sum it up? Does it? Haha....good stuff Just curious though, when are you going to get on with the service to the greater good, and let all these personal foibles, beliefs, and absorptions go?
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Post by enigma on Oct 22, 2013 11:17:36 GMT -5
How to teach yourself self-love? Have you ever had the thought and/or feeling that there's affection you have for yourself cross your mind? If you have, try and recall those moments - for starters. It doesn't matter how old you were when you felt them. Think of moments in your life where you felt reasonably good or on an even keel or just simply confident about yourself. Doesn't matter how brief those interludes may have been experienced as. It doesn't even matter if there was a reason for you feeling like that. Self love isn't really about feeling affection for oneself as that's still engagement on the same dualistic battlefield. That affection is also conditional and you're bound to betray yourself. Self love is not self affection but rather self acceptance, which means the absence of self judgment. To end self judgment is to walk off that judgment/affection battlefield all together.
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Post by enigma on Oct 22, 2013 11:20:31 GMT -5
How to teach yourself self-love? Have you ever had the thought and/or feeling that there's affection you have for yourself cross your mind? If you have, try and recall those moments - for starters. It doesn't matter how old you were when you felt them. Think of moments in your life where you felt reasonably good or on an even keel or just simply confident about yourself. Doesn't matter how brief those interludes may have been experienced as. It doesn't even matter if there was a reason for you feeling like that. :-) Do you feel really, really good about yourself, Steve?
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Post by silver on Oct 22, 2013 11:26:46 GMT -5
How to teach yourself self-love? Have you ever had the thought and/or feeling that there's affection you have for yourself cross your mind? If you have, try and recall those moments - for starters. It doesn't matter how old you were when you felt them. Think of moments in your life where you felt reasonably good or on an even keel or just simply confident about yourself. Doesn't matter how brief those interludes may have been experienced as. It doesn't even matter if there was a reason for you feeling like that. Self love isn't really about feeling affection for oneself as that's still engagement on the same dualistic battlefield. That affection is also conditional and you're bound to betray yourself. Self love is not self affection but rather self acceptance, which means the absence of self judgment. To end self judgment is to walk off that judgment/affection battlefield all together. I don't know that I'd take that tack, because if a person stops judging themselves (for what, I would ask), I think I skipped the middle man by saying that just go for being kind, caring and affectionate to one's self, capice? Not every single thing has to be sorted like one pile of things being dualistic and the other nondualistic. You sure do like that battlefield catch-phrase, heh.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 11:45:32 GMT -5
Do you feel really, really good about yourself, Steve? Which part of the split mind are you expecting an answer from?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 11:45:36 GMT -5
Do you feel really, really good about yourself, Steve? The question is misconceived ;-)
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Post by laughter on Oct 22, 2013 11:45:48 GMT -5
Self love isn't really about feeling affection for oneself as that's still engagement on the same dualistic battlefield. That affection is also conditional and you're bound to betray yourself. Self love is not self affection but rather self acceptance, which means the absence of self judgment. To end self judgment is to walk off that judgment/affection battlefield all together. I don't know that I'd take that tack, because if a person stops judging themselves (for what, I would ask), I think I skipped the middle man by saying that just go for being kind, caring and affectionate to one's self, capice? Not every single thing has to be sorted like one pile of things being dualistic and the other nondualistic. You sure do like that battlefield catch-phrase, heh. The point is that self-esteem and self-loathing define one another in that, conceptually speaking, you can't have one without the other. For example, self-love as E' has styled it would mean that one would stop viewing ones body and mind as ugly and polluted on one hand, but wouldn't replace that negative self-image with one of self-aggrandizement on the other.
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Post by enigma on Oct 22, 2013 11:52:28 GMT -5
I may very well have misunderstood SDP, and Douglass Harding and you too for that matter, (hehe) but in what I see as 'meta awareness', one is aware of the head also and is not actually 'aware' through the eyes. That's what makes it 'meta'. You are right, one is aware of the head, and not through the eyes. I specifically mentioned this because the person who posted the picture, I think it was Less Than Nothing, asked if this is what Steve meant. There was no head in the picture. I don't know if this picture specifically came from Douglas Harding (if not , he has many similar pictures), but in his "practice" On Having No Head, he goes to great lengths to show that one can't demonstrate in any manner that one actually has a head (he gets around, "I can see the tip of my nose" and "I can see my head in a mirror....etc....). I could never buy this because, I know I have a head. I can sense it and I can be aware of it. sdp I never actually got the whole headless thingy. It may be related to the sort of empty awareness that Steve is talking about (which I do get), but I'm not sure just how. Anyhoo, yes, there is the awareness of, for example, the expression on one's face, tension in the head, etc. No need to go into head denial. Hehe.
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Post by silver on Oct 22, 2013 11:52:40 GMT -5
I don't know that I'd take that tack, because if a person stops judging themselves (for what, I would ask), I think I skipped the middle man by saying that just go for being kind, caring and affectionate to one's self, capice? Not every single thing has to be sorted like one pile of things being dualistic and the other nondualistic. You sure do like that battlefield catch-phrase, heh. The point is that self-esteem and self-loathing define one another in that you can't have one without the other. For example, self-love as E' has styled it would mean that one would stop viewing ones body and mind as ugly and polluted on one hand, but wouldn't replace that negative self-image with one of self-aggrandizement on the other. These philosophies of nondualism and dualism are just that, and don't necessarily provide anything truly solid - factual - they are just two ways of looking at stuff in our lives. I think my post holds as much water as Enigma's, tbh. If you tag me as a dualistic type person, you can't necessarily claim that I always see things the way you're saying dualistic people always see them -- a 'dualistic' person doesn't necessarily see things that way (being judgmental, etc.).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 11:55:21 GMT -5
I don't know that I'd take that tack, because if a person stops judging themselves (for what, I would ask), I think I skipped the middle man by saying that just go for being kind, caring and affectionate to one's self, capice? Not every single thing has to be sorted like one pile of things being dualistic and the other nondualistic. You sure do like that battlefield catch-phrase, heh. The point is that self-esteem and self-loathing define one another in that, conceptually speaking, you can't have one without the other. For example, self-love as E' has styled it would mean that one would stop viewing ones body and mind as ugly and polluted on one hand, but wouldn't replace that negative self-image with one of self-aggrandizement on the other. Yes, as perceptions projected onto the world and then believed to be true because you perceived them, they are of course the split minds belief in falsity.
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Post by enigma on Oct 22, 2013 12:18:26 GMT -5
Self love isn't really about feeling affection for oneself as that's still engagement on the same dualistic battlefield. That affection is also conditional and you're bound to betray yourself. Self love is not self affection but rather self acceptance, which means the absence of self judgment. To end self judgment is to walk off that judgment/affection battlefield all together. I don't know that I'd take that tack, because if a person stops judging themselves (for what, I would ask), I think I skipped the middle man by saying that just go for being kind, caring and affectionate to one's self, capice? Not every single thing has to be sorted like one pile of things being dualistic and the other nondualistic. You sure do like that battlefield catch-phrase, heh. You're searching for ways to dismiss what I'm saying with a kind of 'Oh, it's all dualistic and battlefield with you. Blah, blah.', but as an alternative we could actually have a real conversation. The distinction between self affection and the absence of self judgment is critical. Self affection is going to be demanding. What happens when you don't live up to your own expectations? The same thing that happens when others don't; the judgment begins again. Affection for the self is still judgment, and you still have to prove yourself worthy to yourself. Genuine self love is not replacing bad judgment with good judgment, it's simply the end of self judgment, and this naturally leads to the end of judgment of others. In this absence, there is Love. It is not your well considered affection for yourself and others. It is not 'your' Love.
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Post by silver on Oct 22, 2013 12:30:57 GMT -5
I don't know that I'd take that tack, because if a person stops judging themselves (for what, I would ask), I think I skipped the middle man by saying that just go for being kind, caring and affectionate to one's self, capice? Not every single thing has to be sorted like one pile of things being dualistic and the other nondualistic. You sure do like that battlefield catch-phrase, heh. You're searching for ways to dismiss what I'm saying with a kind of 'Oh, it's all dualistic and battlefield with you. Blah, blah.', but as an alternative we could actually have a real conversation. The distinction between self affection and the absence of self judgment is critical. Self affection is going to be demanding. What happens when you don't live up to your own expectations? The same thing that happens when others don't; the judgment begins again. Affection for the self is still judgment, and you still have to prove yourself worthy to yourself. Genuine self love is not replacing bad judgment with good judgment, it's simply the end of self judgment, and this naturally leads to the end of judgment of others. In this absence, there is Love. It is not your well considered affection for yourself and others. It is not 'your' Love. Good god, man, you're actually judging me and what I'm trying to say (and trying to have a real conversation with you in the process) right out the gate. sheesh. Uh second paragraph - I'm not seeing it the way you are saying that I'm seeing it there. I don't see it at all (self affection is going to be demanding) in the least. I can't begin to imagine how you came up with saying that 'affection for the self is still judgment, and you still have to prove yourself worthy to yourself.) I'm just not seeing that. I don't think that I said, nor did I ever mean that 'genuine self love' has anything to do with any kind of judgment. I don't consider that the kind of self-love I'm referring to and understand is 'well considered affection'. I understand that 'it is not 'your' love/Love.' Duality / non-duality is NOT a club, a division, a sector, a vector or a type of cheesecake. Talk about making judgments.
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