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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 15:19:57 GMT -5
Do you see that in non-separation, it could also be said that the clay has own vision, for what it wants to look like? Dunno Sharon, on its surface that seems kind of like another type of pseudo separation to say that...and yet, the clay and I are one as is the happening of the shaping.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Oct 8, 2013 15:48:43 GMT -5
I couldn't hear a lot of that. Video works fine for me. The way I understand it there is no ultimate (mystical or whatever) cure in Freudian or Lacanian therapy, they just try to cure the extreme cases and for the other patients it's just a matter of them getting to understand how their psyche works. The x doesn't go away, afaik they don't know how to cure the mind of the "unknowable x/big Other" phantasm, it's like with the chicken, the man knows that he is not a grain of corn, but the chicken doesn't know it, that's as far as the therapy can go. Or in the case of religion the formula then is "I know that there is no god, but does God know it?" That's why Lacan says that God is not dead, instead he is unconscious, i.e. he doesn't yet know that he is doesn't exist. (not a "real" God of course, but rather just a mind function). I think a guy like UG probably dropped the notion of the "big Other" entirely. The big question is how did he do it. That's what we're talking about on this forum, how do get rid of the alienation within ourselves.
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 8, 2013 15:59:11 GMT -5
I couldn't hear a lot of that. Video works fine for me. The way I understand it there is no ultimate (mystical or whatever) cure in Freudian or Lacanian therapy, they just try to cure the extreme cases and for the other patients it's just a matter of them getting to understand how their psyche works. The x doesn't go away, afaik they don't know how to cure the mind of the "unknowable x/big Other" phantasm, it's like with the chicken, the man knows that he is not a grain of corn, but the chicken doesn't know it, that's as far as the therapy can go. Or in the case of religion the formula then is "I know that there is no god, but does God know it?" That's why Lacan says that God is not dead, instead he is unconscious, i.e. he doesn't yet know that he is doesn't exist. (not a "real" God of course, but rather just a mind function). I think a guy like UG probably dropped the notion of the "big Other" entirely. The big question is how did he do it. That's what we're talking about on this forum, how do get rid of the alienation within ourselves. Knowing UG he just dropped the whole idea and never looked back. Some things are very simple in life but our minds enjoy making them seem almost impossible.
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Post by silence on Oct 8, 2013 16:10:00 GMT -5
That's what we're talking about on this forum, how do get rid of the alienation within ourselves. Yes, I'd say that's a very good description of what spirituality as a whole really is. The most important part is to become clear about whether that alienation is simply a trick of the mind or if you truly are alienated.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 16:17:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. Not the senses, not a feeling, not a thought, not metaphorical, clean my window...hmmm Sounds a lot like Enigma's 'realization'...I don't get that either... You haven't stopped thinking long enough to clean your window.. Be well.. Well that ain't gonna happen because I'm not the doer of thinking...I'm the perceiver of thinking. So I guess clarity will always be a Unicorn for me, but I'll keep a bottle of Mr Clean handy just in case it does stop...
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Post by desertrat on Oct 8, 2013 16:20:11 GMT -5
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 8, 2013 16:34:16 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. You haven't stopped thinking long enough to clean your window.. Be well.. Well that ain't gonna happen because I'm not the doer of thinking...I'm the perceiver of thinking. So I guess clarity will always be a Unicorn for me, but I'll keep a bottle of Mr Clean handy just in case it does stop... You are the doer AND the perceiver.. you perceived yourself doing the windows with your Mr. Clean.. Be well..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 17:39:07 GMT -5
I couldn't hear a lot of that. Video works fine for me. The way I understand it there is no ultimate (mystical or whatever) cure in Freudian or Lacanian therapy, they just try to cure the extreme cases and for the other patients it's just a matter of them getting to understand how their psyche works. The x doesn't go away, afaik they don't know how to cure the mind of the "unknowable x/big Other" phantasm, it's like with the chicken, the man knows that he is not a grain of corn, but the chicken doesn't know it, that's as far as the therapy can go. Or in the case of religion the formula then is "I know that there is no god, but does God know it?" That's why Lacan says that God is not dead, instead he is unconscious, i.e. he doesn't yet know that he is doesn't exist. (not a "real" God of course, but rather just a mind function). I think a guy like UG probably dropped the notion of the "big Other" entirely. The big question is how did he do it. That's what we're talking about on this forum, how do get rid of the alienation within ourselves.By experiencing BEING the "Big Other"....oddly, this does not seem to occur by letting go of the big other, but rather, by letting go of the "you" that is separate from it.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Oct 8, 2013 17:44:38 GMT -5
By experiencing BEING the "Big Other"....oddly, this does not seem to occur by letting go of the big other, but rather, by letting go of the "you" that is separate from it. I'm not sure if you understand what is meant by "big Other". In the sentence "one doesn't do it" do you equate "one" with God?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 17:45:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. Well that ain't gonna happen because I'm not the doer of thinking...I'm the perceiver of thinking. So I guess clarity will always be a Unicorn for me, but I'll keep a bottle of Mr Clean handy just in case it does stop... You are the doer AND the perceiver.. Be well.. And the DO-ing the knower, the knowing, and the known are one The doer, the action, and the object are one.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Oct 8, 2013 17:48:45 GMT -5
That's what we're talking about on this forum, how do get rid of the alienation within ourselves. Yes, I'd say that's a very good description of what spirituality as a whole really is. The most important part is to become clear about whether that alienation is simply a trick of the mind or if you truly are alienated. "Truly alienated" how? In a physical sense? I don't think that many have trouble understanding that the whole alienation thing is just a "trick of the mind", the problem is that this understanding is not sufficient to end the problem or feeling or whatever it is. The man knows that he isn't a grain of corn, but how to make the chicken know it? That's still the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 17:59:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. Well that ain't gonna happen because I'm not the doer of thinking...I'm the perceiver of thinking. So I guess clarity will always be a Unicorn for me, but I'll keep a bottle of Mr Clean handy just in case it does stop... You are the doer AND the perceiver.. you perceived yourself doing the windows with your Mr. Clean.. Be well.. It seems to me that perceiving and doing are in two opposite directions... I can perceive doing but I can't perceive the doer... I might have to switch to Windex instead of Mr. Clean...
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 8, 2013 19:25:57 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. You are the doer AND the perceiver.. Be well.. And the DO-ing the knower, the knowing, and the known are one The doer, the action, and the object are one. There are many things in a symphony of 'doing', though there is one happening.. 'parts' AND 'whole'.. It's very cool to state such wisdom as, " the knower, the knowing, and the known are one", but the different meanings express the actual experience.. such wisdoms are the purview of mind's overactive imagination and the self-image that accompanies the imagined wisdom.. Be well..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2013 19:44:34 GMT -5
Greetings.. And the DO-ing the knower, the knowing, and the known are one The doer, the action, and the object are one. There are many things in a symphony of 'doing', though there is one happening.. 'parts' AND 'whole'.. It's very cool to state such wisdom as, " the knower, the knowing, and the known are one", but the different meanings express the actual experience.. such wisdoms are the purview of mind's overactive imagination and the self-image that accompanies the imagined wisdom.. Be well.. Actually, over time, there has seemed to occur a kind of assimilation of experience wherein the Knower the knowing and the knowing experientially become one....only when my mind moves to consciously identify or distinguish between the parts does an experience of distinguishment arise. My actual experience is one of the knower the knowing and the known being one and indistinguishable unless the mind moves to distinguish them. This is why i told you that experience itself is not uniform. You may look on my garage floor and see an exhaust manifold gasket sitting next to the car and that is your direct experience...I look and see visual field of varying shapes and sizes that is a whole without parts, only variation of one thing....variations of in a single visual field is my default experiential perspective....generally, I don't experience "parts", just a whole, though language can't assimilate that, so when speaking, it can't be communicated, and the use of words seems to indicate that I am experiencing "parts" of a whole, and yet I am not. My direct experience is one of a whole with no parts. One thing that I think you may not have grasped yet Tzu....is that direct experience is not uniform, its relative to the experiencer, and yet all the same. only in the examination of parts and in viewing them as parts do things become parts. In any case....isn't it an odd thing to debate? LoL
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Post by nowhereman on Oct 8, 2013 20:24:04 GMT -5
Pam Reynolds Lowery from Atlanta, Georgia was an American singer-songwriter. In 1991, at the age of 35, she had a near-death experience (NDE) during a brain operation. Her NDE is one of the most notable and best documented in NDE research. During "standstill" operation, Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain which left her clinically dead. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all.
She made several observations about the procedure which later were confirmed by medical personnel as surprisingly accurate. Pamela Reynolds Lowery died of heart failure at the age of 53 (1956 -- May 22, 2010)
This famous near-death experience is considered by many to be proof of the reality of the survival of consciousness after death, and of a life after death.
Her out-of-body recollection is "the single best instance we now have in the literature on near-death experiences to confound the skeptics," according to Kenneth Ring, professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Connecticut and a chronicler of these episodes.
This video is an excerpt from a BBC documentary "The day i died".
(Near death experience, death, BBC documentary, Pamela Raynolds, Whad does God look like. life after death History channel)
{Though her experience as far as what she observes is fairly standard and unremarkable her ability to be able to have such a experience when her brain was flat lined and no pulse nor breath is amazing to me. Nowhereman}
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