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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2013 19:58:35 GMT -5
"It is not going to take you time" is very important. How long does one have to "keep quiet" then?
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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2013 20:01:43 GMT -5
trf -- when you say that bit about "there's a real risk" are you referring to peeps doing self inquiry or some sort of practice or are you referring to joe on the street who mayhaps has never known about any of this junk in the first place? Both honest inquiry as well as simply playing around with silly beliefs poses a serious risk to one's mental stability. It's not at all uncommon for people to end up majorly suicidal, having total mental breakdowns or simply feeling totally out of it and lost. And yet, some type of breakdown is necessary and already known. There's beauty in that breakdown.
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Post by silence on Oct 1, 2013 20:11:01 GMT -5
"It is not going to take you time" is very important. How long does one have to "keep quiet" then? Heh, right. And people will ask that type of misconceived question without batting an eye too.
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Post by silver on Oct 1, 2013 20:12:49 GMT -5
Both honest inquiry as well as simply playing around with silly beliefs poses a serious risk to one's mental stability. It's not at all uncommon for people to end up majorly suicidal, having total mental breakdowns or simply feeling totally out of it and lost. And yet, some type of breakdown is necessary and already known. There's beauty in that breakdown. Yeah, when it's not happening to you.
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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2013 20:18:28 GMT -5
Both honest inquiry as well as simply playing around with silly beliefs poses a serious risk to one's mental stability. It's not at all uncommon for people to end up majorly suicidal, having total mental breakdowns or simply feeling totally out of it and lost. And yet, some type of breakdown is necessary and already known. Is the breakdown necessary, or just a side effect of a self that is losing its selfhood so to speak? a kind of clinging to life of the self, a "fighting back" so to speak. I don't recommend humoring the self by exploring what it's feeling or why, rather, just inquire: Who is feeling this or experiencing this? And bring still silent attention back to the self, instead of what the self is doing or experiencing. Self honesty is good for "cleaning out the mind" as Papaji called it, but as Papaji said, whats the point of that? Papaji: "You have two choices: Either you follow most teachers and spend your life trying to remove or clean out the mind. First you will have to find out if the mind exists. No one has seen the mind. Even if you found it, how do you propose to clean it? Everyone is practicing cleaning the mind but there is no one so far who has cleaned it. Where is this mind to be cleaned? " Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3112/keep-quiet-attack-allowed-thread#ixzz2gWLu87r4Asking where the mind is, is playing into a misconception that the mind is a thing. It's not, but it IS a collection of problematic beliefs. Yes, those beliefs actually do exist. Suggesting that one of the alternatives is to spend one's life clearing out the mind only to fail, assumes that the task is to clear every single illusion from the mind, whereas the task is really just to do some good honest work and make yourself 'accident prone'. As far as how I propose to clean it, I suggest some genuine, humble, sincere, self honesty, and genuine realization leading to clarity. (Yes, I know who I'm contradicting)
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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2013 20:27:02 GMT -5
Is the breakdown necessary, or just a side effect of a self that is losing its selfhood so to speak? The only thing being lost are mental crutches that artificially propped up a livable measure of mental stability. Some degree of destabilization is pretty much guaranteed. If one feels as though it's nothing more than smooth sailing, they've probably sailed directly into further self deception. Zakly. It's the crutches that are being lost, and need to be lost because they were the wrong way to bring stability to instability resulting from erroneous beliefs. In a way, one has to back up and stop doing the wrong thing and start doing the right thing, and in between it might hurt a little, but the more honest one is willing to be, the more quickly that nonsense will be over. Seekers may spend their whole lives trying to avoid that 'dark night', but it's made up of only resistance.
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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2013 20:29:25 GMT -5
There's beauty in that breakdown. Yeah, when it's not happening to you. True. You will see the beauty also, but from the other side of it.
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Post by silver on Oct 1, 2013 20:40:17 GMT -5
Yeah, when it's not happening to you. True. You will see the beauty also, but from the other side of it. It's not a given that peeps will have a breakdown.
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Post by steven on Oct 1, 2013 20:51:20 GMT -5
Both honest inquiry as well as simply playing around with silly beliefs poses a serious risk to one's mental stability. It's not at all uncommon for people to end up majorly suicidal, having total mental breakdowns or simply feeling totally out of it and lost. And yet, some type of breakdown is necessary and already known. There's beauty in that breakdown. And sunsets, and childbirth.
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Post by silver on Oct 1, 2013 21:02:30 GMT -5
There's beauty in that breakdown. And sunsets, and childbirth. Is it the same kind of beauty, though?
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Post by steven on Oct 1, 2013 21:08:38 GMT -5
And sunsets, and childbirth. Is it the same kind of beauty, though? Is the beauty of a brilliant red different than the beauty of an azure blue? take a big enough perspective, and everything is inherently beautiful.
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Post by silver on Oct 1, 2013 21:18:13 GMT -5
Is it the same kind of beauty, though? Is the beauty of a brilliant red different than the beauty of an azure blue? take a big enough perspective, and everything is inherently beautiful. A philosophy, a religion, a concept, a belief, even non-duality is a different kind of beautiful than a nest full of robin's eggs or sunset on the ocean or a double rainbow after a storm.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 21:34:31 GMT -5
There's beauty in that breakdown. Yeah, when it's not happening to you. to find ok within emotion, we do by not allowing our critics judgement, which draws us out of the hearts-dominion, reducing us to a half-life apart from our essence. Staying t/here, the mind drops in time, to centre where it was created shortly after our birth.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 21:44:40 GMT -5
Zakly. It's the crutches that are being lost, and need to be lost because they were the wrong way to bring stability to instability resulting from erroneous beliefs. In a way, one has to back up and stop doing the wrong thing and start doing the right thing, and in between it might hurt a little, but the more honest one is willing to be, the more quickly that nonsense will be over. Seekers may spend their whole lives trying to avoid that 'dark night', but it's made up of only resistance. Seems like mind is always interested in doing something about mind... sure thing...something has to be done with this mysterious thing that constantly delivers thought after thought, having read books and listened to others who have read the same information. One cannot drop the mind, that's simply ego. Mind is ok, just review the way in which we each individually relate to mental content. Watching reveals how we give our minds Power and thus make it real, when its simply psychosis we are doing to ourself.
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Post by steven on Oct 1, 2013 21:49:09 GMT -5
Is the beauty of a brilliant red different than the beauty of an azure blue? take a big enough perspective, and everything is inherently beautiful. A philosophy, a religion, a concept, a belief, even non-duality is a different kind of beautiful than a nest full of robin's eggs or sunset on the ocean or a double rainbow after a storm. In some ways yes, and yet, if you allow it, without the judgements and assessments that we are want to take up, then all things have the same kind of beauty. Frequently I will sit or walk, and just open to being aware of the Grace of God, and kinda open myself and feel the Grace of God filling me and perfusing me....in that perspective, ALL things and happenings have an unspeakable beauty that is equal both in quality and quantity. So perspective has much to do with it... But as you say, from another perspective, a double rainbow is a different kind of beauty than philosophical contemplation....but is this because the inherent beauty is different, or is it because when you are witnessing a double rainbow in a state of quiet gratitude you are more receptive to beauty? You can be that quiet and grateful and receptive to beauty in any moment, with any experience ;-)
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