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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Aug 23, 2013 13:09:11 GMT -5
Asking if desire is still a fact even if "I" is an illusion is like asking, "Isn't a mirage factual if it is being perceived?" or "Does something imaginary become factual if it is imagined?" A mirage is a mirage; when it collapses, the truth becomes obvious. You don't understand his point. Not long ago I've already explaned the same point to you, but you still don't get it.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Aug 23, 2013 13:10:28 GMT -5
The thought occurred that maybe one doesn't have to be particularly intelligent to be a millionaire in Russia. I would claim that especially in Russia you have to be very intelligent. Most multi-millionaires there have some blood on their hands, and if they don't know what they're doing then the money will go the same way it came.
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Post by enigma on Aug 23, 2013 15:01:03 GMT -5
Thinking creates the illusion that we are separate entities with various desires. What is seen or known when the mind becomes silent? I sat in a chair for about 20 minutes after reading this. Mind was all over the place, as usual. "mind becomes silent" ... mmm. Something has to take that mental noise away, and it's not likely to be the one making the noise.
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Post by enigma on Aug 23, 2013 15:01:49 GMT -5
to answer the question: yes, if so inclined; however, it's moot. What question?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 15:03:54 GMT -5
to answer the question: yes, if so inclined; however, it's moot. What question? Should the "I" try to escape rebirth?
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Post by enigma on Aug 23, 2013 15:03:57 GMT -5
The thought occurred that maybe one doesn't have to be particularly intelligent to be a millionaire in Russia. I would claim that especially in Russia you have to be very intelligent. Most multi-millionaires there have some blood on their hands, and if they don't know what they're doing then the money will go the same way it came. It was a bad joke, akchuly.
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Post by enigma on Aug 23, 2013 15:04:57 GMT -5
Should the "I" try to escape rebirth? Oh......I forgot what the thread was about. Hehe.
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Post by zendancer on Aug 23, 2013 15:07:45 GMT -5
Thinking creates the illusion that we are separate entities with various desires. What is seen or known when the mind becomes silent? I sat in a chair for about 20 minutes after reading this. Mind was all over the place, as usual. "mind becomes silent" ... mmm. Yes, it's unlikely that the mind will become noticeably silent in 20 minutes. The average person probably spends 15 hours per day thinking, so it's a fairly ingrained habit, to say the least. Niz once remarked on how frustrated he felt when he first began trying to stay with the sense of "I AM." As he also noted, "You didn't get into this mess (of thinking you're a separate entity) overnight." If you're like most people, you won't get out of the mess overnight. It took Niz 3 years; it took Rinzai 3 years, and both of them were spending several hours each day shifting attention away from thoughts. Unless you're extremely lucky it's not an overnight matter.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 15:08:01 GMT -5
Should the "I" try to escape rebirth? Oh......I forgot what the thread was about. Hehe. too many rebirths.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 18:08:34 GMT -5
Thinking creates the illusion that we are separate entities with various desires. What is seen or known when the mind becomes silent? I sat in a chair for about 20 minutes after reading this. Mind was all over the place, as usual. "mind becomes silent" ... mmm. There are a few things that help beginners to have still mind more easily. The first is quick and easy....just concentrate your attention on your tongue and hold your tongue very still...the mind and the body are connected, so you will find that it actually take effort to think word based thoughts while holding your tongue still and concentrating on it. The second is to just sit for 20 minutes a day holding the body completely still, while letting the mind wander however it will...learning to sit with the body very still will make it easier to have the mind be still. Once you have the knack of the mind being still for periods like this, then try and be so concentrated on the various activities and sensory experiences throughout your daily life that the mind becomes still. Try to remain very alert and self aware at all times in all activities...even while just thinking....be very alert and aware of your thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 18:16:25 GMT -5
I sat in a chair for about 20 minutes after reading this. Mind was all over the place, as usual. "mind becomes silent" ... mmm. Yes, it's unlikely that the mind will become noticeably silent in 20 minutes. The average person probably spends 15 hours per day thinking, so it's a fairly ingrained habit, to say the least. Niz once remarked on how frustrated he felt when he first began trying to stay with the sense of "I AM." As he also noted, "You didn't get into this mess (of thinking you're a separate entity) overnight." If you're like most people, you won't get out of the mess overnight. It took Niz 3 years; it took Rinzai 3 years, and both of them were spending several hours each day shifting attention away from thoughts. Unless you're extremely lucky it's not an overnight matter. Tolle has some very good advice for beginners: Try to watch for thoughts as they emerge, like watching for a little black mouse emerging from a whole in a dimly lit room. Also, remain very alert, very aware, and relaxed as much and as often as possible.
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Post by Beingist on Aug 23, 2013 18:32:13 GMT -5
Should the "I" try to escape rebirth? I gotta say that in my experience, trying to escape anything only results in being neck-deep in it. Seems to make more sense really putting attention into the desire to be reborn. Maybe then, you'll escape it after all. Maybe. Otherwise, I'm sure you'll come back, if you so choose.
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Post by laughter on Aug 23, 2013 19:19:06 GMT -5
Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve!Yes, it's unlikely that the mind will become noticeably silent in 20 minutes. The average person probably spends 15 hours per day thinking, so it's a fairly ingrained habit, to say the least. Niz once remarked on how frustrated he felt when he first began trying to stay with the sense of "I AM." As he also noted, "You didn't get into this mess (of thinking you're a separate entity) overnight." If you're like most people, you won't get out of the mess overnight. It took Niz 3 years; it took Rinzai 3 years, and both of them were spending several hours each day shifting attention away from thoughts. Unless you're extremely lucky it's not an overnight matter. Tolle has some very good advice for beginners: Try to watch for thoughts as they emerge, like watching for a little black mouse emerging from a whole in a dimly lit room. Also, remain very alert, very aware, and relaxed as much and as often as possible. At the edge of the constant precipice the balancing act must be effortless A shift by the will works only until attention can slip in the breathlessness Fickle's the point of our focus but only until we do notice even in moment held lightly the thiefs hand need move only slightly But any fall lasts only as long as we are bemused by that tangled song distractions sound and the spinning around fade back into silence from whence they did sound The notes of the song can come sweetly beckoning toward slumber completely leave the good with the bad so that space might be had and the edge balanced ever repeatedly Leave any notion of progress or motion of anything to be attained, At the base of the road take a breath and unload throw the maps and the nets to the rain. Smile at the thought that a fall might be caught there's no price to a moment no thing to be bought Instead let the play spin in gentleness dissolution arrives with relentlessness. No wisdom or lore it all falls by the shore, of a vision fixed ever on endlessness
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 19:41:44 GMT -5
It doesn't look good, but possibly we can put you into cryogenic suspension until we figure out how to fix it. some of freejoys' greedy people are already on the case ... "Take Larry Ellison for example. Ellison, CEO of Oracle and the fifth-richest person in the world with a net worth of $43 billion, hates death. The idea, he says in the book, that someone can "be there and just vanish, just not be there" doesn't resonate with him .. Ellison sees death as “just another kind of corporate opponent he can outfox. Then there's Russian multimillionaire Dmitry Itskov. According to Itskov, all we have to do is make the simple swap between our biological bodies and machine bodies as soon as possible. Our brains will be backed up in cyberspace and we’ll just download ourselves into bionic avatars whenever the mood strikes. Itskov believes we'll be "100% immortal" by 2045. Also featured is Google cofounder Sergey Brin and Paypal cofounder Peter Thiel .. “the first person to live to be 1,000 years old is certainly alive today.” " there's hope yet!!! now if only I had millions or billions, I could live foreveeeer.... hehe thank you farmer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 20:08:51 GMT -5
can you explain to me what 'putting the lid on it', means? *smiles and remains silent* the idea behind 'questions' is to see if the listener has a heart to listen-with. Thus the listener finds an internal-response an gets to use their head to speak. ''How do you see the "I" as different from Mankinds self?'' Mankind is one, together, separated by the various beliefs the "I" s hold precious; the "I" is afraid of its death as well was the entertaining the process of dying. The "I" can be said to be a shallow representation of the Self. By proclaiming no-self, the "I" is safe until death unlocks lifes secret.
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