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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 8:36:07 GMT -5
This issue can be looked at from two different perspectives. The first has already been stated by E. Who we are was never born and will never die. Unity is unity, and realizing unity frees the body/mind from the illusion of separateness. [...] If THIS looks at Itself in the absence of thought, birth, death, and all other ideas ABOUT birth, re-birth, appearance, or disappearance disappear. To quote the title of a book that seems appropos, "No Self, No Problem." This scares me a little because I worry it's a glorified version of "ignorance is bliss". A question about this idea of no separateness or no self... I've heard this for years, but never felt like "separateness" was a problem, nor felt a desire to return to "unity" or "God" or ?. I've always felt like my problem is that I desire things, and I can't satisfy desire or honestly change it. Even if "I" is an illusion, is not desire still a fact in consciousness? I figured I'm a shallow, somewhat perverted person, and if God doesn't like it then he should have created something else. Are you saying that separateness is an illusion that is causing desire, or the pain connected to desire? Robert |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 23, 2013 8:44:11 GMT -5
The words, "No self, no problem," are humorously pointing to an absence of any concepts, but if that isn't obvious, please ignore them. can you explain to me what 'putting the lid on it', means? *smiles and remains silent* |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 23, 2013 9:08:16 GMT -5
This issue can be looked at from two different perspectives. The first has already been stated by E. Who we are was never born and will never die. Unity is unity, and realizing unity frees the body/mind from the illusion of separateness. [...] If THIS looks at Itself in the absence of thought, birth, death, and all other ideas ABOUT birth, re-birth, appearance, or disappearance disappear. To quote the title of a book that seems appropos, "No Self, No Problem." This scares me a little because I worry it's a glorified version of "ignorance is bliss". A question about this idea of no separateness or no self... I've heard this for years, but never felt like "separateness" was a problem, nor felt a desire to return to "unity" or "God" or ?. I've always felt like my problem is that I desire things, and I can't satisfy desire or honestly change it. Even if "I" is an illusion, is not desire still a fact in consciousness? I figured I'm a shallow, somewhat perverted person, and if God doesn't like it then he should have created something else. Are you saying that separateness is an illusion that is causing desire, or the pain connected to desire? Robert It's more like acquiring knowledge without remaining attached to it. As for "returning to unity," that's not an option because who you really are is already unified. For any movement to occur, there would have to be something separate capable of becoming unified, and there isn't. All imagined "problems" disappear when the imaginer is seen through. Asking if desire is still a fact even if "I" is an illusion is like asking, "Isn't a mirage factual if it is being perceived?" or "Does something imaginary become factual if it is imagined?" A mirage is a mirage; when it collapses, the truth becomes obvious. Defining oneself as a "shallow, somewhat perverted person" is no different than defining oneself as a "deep, somewhat spiritual person." If you cease to define yourself in any way, then what are you? People define themselves as human beings, fathers, sons, wives, beauty queens, drug addicts, Democrats, Americans, Methodists, ad infinitum. These identities are all imaginary. Self inquiry is the process of finding out what imagines all of these imaginary identities. Thinking creates the illusion that we are separate entities with various desires. What is seen or known when the mind becomes silent? |
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Post by enigma on Aug 23, 2013 10:18:03 GMT -5
 [going up] "weeeeeeeeeeee I'm alive!!!" [going down] "oh crap! what's going to happen to ME???"  It doesn't look good, but possibly we can put you into cryogenic suspension until we figure out how to fix it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 10:36:59 GMT -5
[going up] "weeeeeeeeeeee I'm alive!!!" [going down] "oh crap! what's going to happen to ME???" It doesn't look good, but possibly we can put you into cryogenic suspension until we figure out how to fix it. some of freejoys' greedy people are already on the case ... "Take Larry Ellison for example. Ellison, CEO of Oracle and the fifth-richest person in the world with a net worth of $43 billion, hates death. The idea, he says in the book, that someone can "be there and just vanish, just not be there" doesn't resonate with him .. Ellison sees death as “just another kind of corporate opponent he can outfox. Then there's Russian multimillionaire Dmitry Itskov. According to Itskov, all we have to do is make the simple swap between our biological bodies and machine bodies as soon as possible. Our brains will be backed up in cyberspace and we’ll just download ourselves into bionic avatars whenever the mood strikes. Itskov believes we'll be "100% immortal" by 2045. Also featured is Google cofounder Sergey Brin and Paypal cofounder Peter Thiel .. “the first person to live to be 1,000 years old is certainly alive today.” " there's hope yet!!!  now if only I had millions or billions, I could live foreveeeer.... hehe |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 10:52:14 GMT -5
ponderers thread....for intelligent people. I hope I'm allowed to respond too. Hehe. What makes you think you'll be reborn? You weren't born in the first place. He's got the birth certificate to prove it...or a least some baby pictures... |
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Post by enigma on Aug 23, 2013 10:52:29 GMT -5
This issue can be looked at from two different perspectives. The first has already been stated by E. Who we are was never born and will never die. Unity is unity, and realizing unity frees the body/mind from the illusion of separateness. [...] If THIS looks at Itself in the absence of thought, birth, death, and all other ideas ABOUT birth, re-birth, appearance, or disappearance disappear. To quote the title of a book that seems appropos, "No Self, No Problem." This scares me a little because I worry it's a glorified version of "ignorance is bliss". A question about this idea of no separateness or no self... I've heard this for years, but never felt like "separateness" was a problem, nor felt a desire to return to "unity" or "God" or ?. I've always felt like my problem is that I desire things, and I can't satisfy desire or honestly change it. Even if "I" is an illusion, is not desire still a fact in consciousness? I figured I'm a shallow, somewhat perverted person, and if God doesn't like it then he should have created something else. Are you saying that separateness is an illusion that is causing desire, or the pain connected to desire? Robert The separate person will never feel like separation is a problem, but will feel that oneness, specifically the implications of oneness for the separate person, to be a serious threat. It's just common sense, really. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 10:57:14 GMT -5
Welcome... That which identifies with conceptual-thought can be said to be the "I" viewpoint. Ego (sense of a self) becomes crystallised soon after birth an begins to take-on ideas about the reality it finds itself within. Thus life becomes lost to its true nature, that of Life. "I" would welcome rebirth if it considered it had an un-met karmic need within its limited conciousness and it may choose to take another birth so as to dissolve its separated sense of self. This issue can be looked at from two different perspectives. The first has already been stated by E. Who we are was never born and will never die. Unity is unity, and realizing unity frees the body/mind from the illusion of separateness. The other perspective is that who we are manifests as trillions of life forms, so in one sense it is being born and is dying millions of times each second. It is like an ocean with many waves appearing on the surface. No matter how many waves appear and disappear the ocean remains unaffected. Humans usually identify with the waves, but it is possible to realize one's oneness with what gives rise to the waves. If THIS looks at Itself in the absence of thought, birth, death, and all other ideas ABOUT birth, re-birth, appearance, or disappearance disappear. To quote the title of a book that seems appropos, "No Self, No Problem." Therein lays the problem.... Conceptualizing that, which cannot be conceptualized... Better to ask if the 'light is on or off' in the room... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 11:06:39 GMT -5
The question is misconceived. Death is final. There is no rebirth. Death is not a persistent thing or a final state... In fact without it's opposite, Life, there could be no Death and visa versa... You are dying in each moment and being reborn in the next... You've died so many times Q that the newspapers are refusing your Obituary... |
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Post by enigma on Aug 23, 2013 11:11:56 GMT -5
It doesn't look good, but possibly we can put you into cryogenic suspension until we figure out how to fix it. some of freejoys' greedy people are already on the case ... "Take Larry Ellison for example. Ellison, CEO of Oracle and the fifth-richest person in the world with a net worth of $43 billion, hates death. The idea, he says in the book, that someone can "be there and just vanish, just not be there" doesn't resonate with him .. Ellison sees death as “just another kind of corporate opponent he can outfox. Then there's Russian multimillionaire Dmitry Itskov. According to Itskov, all we have to do is make the simple swap between our biological bodies and machine bodies as soon as possible. Our brains will be backed up in cyberspace and we’ll just download ourselves into bionic avatars whenever the mood strikes. Itskov believes we'll be "100% immortal" by 2045.Also featured is Google cofounder Sergey Brin and Paypal cofounder Peter Thiel .. “the first person to live to be 1,000 years old is certainly alive today.” " there's hope yet!!! now if only I had millions or billions, I could live foreveeeer.... hehe The thought occurred that maybe one doesn't have to be particularly intelligent to be a millionaire in Russia.  |
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Post by desertrat on Aug 23, 2013 11:17:04 GMT -5
Learn astral projection , see whats out there . See where you might go if you did not come back to earth in your next life .
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Post by silver on Aug 23, 2013 11:30:45 GMT -5
Learn astral projection , see whats out there . See where you might go if you did not come back to earth in your next life . Something tells me this is a good idea but, I've always been skeered of trying it - except in my dreams at night - which is probably very similar to ap while awake and lots of people try it but don't get anywhere with it even if they really want to. |
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Post by desertrat on Aug 23, 2013 11:53:21 GMT -5
Learn astral projection , see whats out there . See where you might go if you did not come back to earth in your next life . Something tells me this is a good idea but, I've always been skeered of trying it - except in my dreams at night - which is probably very similar to ap while awake and lots of people try it but don't get anywhere with it even if they really want to. We all go out of body during deep sleep , most dont remember , or as maby as a flying dream . Astral pulse has some methods as stickies , and Erin has some blogs on a.p. www.astralpulse.com/forums/ www.erinpavlina.com/ This site has a free pdf for down load obe4u.com/ P.s. I have many more a.p. forum links I can post if asked . |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 12:14:22 GMT -5
Thinking creates the illusion that we are separate entities with various desires. What is seen or known when the mind becomes silent? I sat in a chair for about 20 minutes after reading this. Mind was all over the place, as usual. "mind becomes silent" ... mmm. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 12:25:57 GMT -5
to answer the question: yes, if so inclined; however, it's moot.
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now if only I had millions or billions, I could live foreveeeer.... hehe
