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Post by topology on Aug 22, 2013 9:13:08 GMT -5
I must have left my frustration in another room, then. As for the rest, just because a person is interested in something most other people don't seem to be interested in does not mean that they don't live normal lives where they wake up in the morning, eat breakfast, go to work, pay bills, socialize, or whatever else. Does that mean I wouldn't like a mansion, a motorcycle, or even a new computer? Of course not. Those things just don't fit into my budget, and that's life. What would you consider a normal life to be? No, i'm not talking about mansions and motorcycles. I'm talking about chump normal and zen normal. All you have is the chump normal, but you want it to be zen normal. If you really thought that your life is normal then you wouldn't log into the interwebs and tell all about it to strangers from all over the world. This becomes more accentuated when you boast with your "normal" life being in the same context as the supposedly normal lifes of people like Bobby and The Great Enlightened Zen Master Seung Sahn. In truth your life is of course totally and embarrassingly normal, there is nothing to talk about at all. And yet you do talk about it. Why? Obviously because you're not actually okay with it, you want it to be a special normal, the zen normal, not the stupid chump normal of pitiful creatures who work all day and watch Fox news in the evening and are totally immersed in ignorance. The problem is that you know the truth (that your life is chump normal) and you don't actually believe that your life is the special zen normal and so you log into the interwebs and you tell a story about it, you're looking for other people to believe your story so that you are relieved from the impossible duty of having to believe it yourself. Because you know the truth you can't believe your story yourself and that's why you need other people to believe it for you. That's the only reason why you're telling us about your normal life. Why are you here, Q? Desperately trying to flee your ordinary normal life? Why else would you come into a den of the "non-normal" and "non-ordinary" in your perception? Everything you say here is more about you and your psychological makeup than mamza.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 9:20:34 GMT -5
From my perspective, and it might differ from ZD's, is that there usually need to be insights/realizations along the way (likely many) so that mind is left mostly at rest because it doesn't know what to do, what to think, what to hold onto, what to pursue. Without that process of being informed, mind will just keep churning up the same stuff indefinitely no matter how many times you return to the actual. I agree that insights/realizations ultimately inform mind concerning its proper place in the scheme of things, and eventually put it to rest, but peeps who persistently stay focused on "what is" almost always have those insights/realizations. The problem with most "practices," when they are seen as practices, is that they reinforce the idea that there is a someone who is practicing. This is why I refer to ATA and other forms of meditation as activities rather than practices. It is only when peeps "just do it," without reason or expectation, that mind truly gets left out of the loop. The Just Doing It part is pretty fascinating. It just happens. My inkling is that there's something in the thought-story that triggers it. As long as more associations are made with ATA, more symbols, words, ideas, anything tied in some way to a reminder to pay attention to the present, that shift will be triggered. So the intensity, the sincerity, self-honesty, the earnestness etc are really just classical ways of creating solid memories that help shift the attention. The trick is creating a thought story with a critical mass of such triggers (the gradualist method) or a single trigger that is like a neutron bomb in it's compellingness. At some point the attention just stays present. It's like a critical mass has been achieved and then the thought story is overwhelmed and left behind.
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Post by Beingist on Aug 22, 2013 9:28:48 GMT -5
No, i'm not talking about mansions and motorcycles. I'm talking about chump normal and zen normal. All you have is the chump normal, but you want it to be zen normal. If you really thought that your life is normal then you wouldn't log into the interwebs and tell all about it to strangers from all over the world. This becomes more accentuated when you boast with your "normal" life being in the same context as the supposedly normal lifes of people like Bobby and The Great Enlightened Zen Master Seung Sahn. In truth your life is of course totally and embarrassingly normal, there is nothing to talk about at all. And yet you do talk about it. Why? Obviously because you're not actually okay with it, you want it to be a special normal, the zen normal, not the stupid chump normal of pitiful creatures who work all day and watch Fox news in the evening and are totally immersed in ignorance. The problem is that you know the truth (that your life is chump normal) and you don't actually believe that your life is the special zen normal and so you log into the interwebs and you tell a story about it, you're looking for other people to believe your story so that you are relieved from the impossible duty of having to believe it yourself. Because you know the truth you can't believe your story yourself and that's why you need other people to believe it for you. That's the only reason why you're telling us about your normal life. Why are you here, Q? Desperately trying to flee your ordinary normal life? Why else would you come into a den of the "non-normal" and "non-ordinary" in your perception? Everything you say here is more about you and your psychological makeup than mamza. Eppur si mouve is Q? ugh, you sock puppet peeps are gonna be the end o' me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 9:35:56 GMT -5
Why are you here, Q? Desperately trying to flee your ordinary normal life? Why else would you come into a den of the "non-normal" and "non-ordinary" in your perception? Everything you say here is more about you and your psychological makeup than mamza. Eppur si mouve is Q? ugh, you sock puppet peeps are gonna be the end o' me. gawd, you're slow...
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Post by enigma on Aug 22, 2013 9:39:30 GMT -5
Eppur si mouve is Q? ugh, you sock puppet peeps are gonna be the end o' me. gawd, you're slow... Bears have a lot of weight to carry around, so mostly they just lumber from place to place.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Aug 22, 2013 9:43:48 GMT -5
Eppur si mouve is Q? ugh, you sock puppet peeps are gonna be the end o' me. gawd, you're slow... If it's true what B said then I actually respect it a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 9:46:02 GMT -5
gawd, you're slow... Bears have a lot of weight to carry around, so mostly they just lumber from place to place. yes, and I'm thinking it might be wiser to emulate one of the smaller critters, you know, one that utilizes attentive observation , to navigate through the world.
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Post by enigma on Aug 22, 2013 10:01:55 GMT -5
Bears have a lot of weight to carry around, so mostly they just lumber from place to place. yes, and I'm thinking it might be wiser to emulate one of the smaller critters, you know, one that utilizes attentive observation , to navigate through the world. In my impersonal experience, these here critters are sharp as a tack.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 10:05:28 GMT -5
yes, and I'm thinking it might be wiser to emulate one of the smaller critters, you know, one that utilizes attentive observation , to navigate through the world. In my impersonal experience, these here critters are sharp as a tack. But incredibly indecisive, not to mention frantic.
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Post by serpentqueen on Aug 22, 2013 12:08:38 GMT -5
My impression is generally that people can spend years wrestling with what a pointer actually is rather than needing some perfected signpost. People basically have the hand with the extended finger under a microscope and all they can see are the hairs of the hand and the texture of the skin. Zoom out and it's obvious it's just a hand pointing to something. People aren't as stupid as you think. They know what a pointer is. The problem is that when they look where it's pointing they don't find anything.That's a good start.
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Post by freejoy on Aug 22, 2013 12:12:12 GMT -5
No, you're not okay with it. You're aggrandizing it with your "oh look everyone, I have normal life, just like Bobby and the great Zen Master Seung Sahn". Fúck off, it's fake. If you really have normal life then you don't log into the interwebs and tell all about it to strangers from all over the world. I must have left my frustration in another room, then. As for the rest, just because a person is interested in something most other people don't seem to be interested in does not mean that they don't live normal lives where they wake up in the morning, eat breakfast, go to work, pay bills, socialize, or whatever else. Does that mean I wouldn't like a mansion, a motorcycle, or even a new computer? Of course not. Those things just don't fit into my budget, and that's life. What would you consider a normal life to be? What good is a mansion to an enlightened person? What would an enlightened person want a motorcycle unless for traveling? Who needs a hammer unless they need one for a project, kind of unless. If people shared you could use theirs. Have you notice none of the books on enlightenment or the greed books that try to use God for money don't mention sharing? The day before yesterday I meet for the first time a homeless person seeking enlightenment. I didn't want to tell him the party is only for the wealthy. The ones who believe God is a joke so they can feel okay being greedy.
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Post by topology on Aug 22, 2013 12:27:25 GMT -5
I must have left my frustration in another room, then. As for the rest, just because a person is interested in something most other people don't seem to be interested in does not mean that they don't live normal lives where they wake up in the morning, eat breakfast, go to work, pay bills, socialize, or whatever else. Does that mean I wouldn't like a mansion, a motorcycle, or even a new computer? Of course not. Those things just don't fit into my budget, and that's life. What would you consider a normal life to be? What good is a mansion to an enlightened person? What would an enlightened person want a motorcycle unless for traveling? Who needs a hammer unless they need one for a project, kind of unless. If people shared you could use theirs. Have you notice none of the books on enlightenment or the greed books that try to use God for money don't mention sharing? The day before yesterday I meet for the first time a homeless person seeking enlightenment. I didn't want to tell him the party is only for the wealthy. The ones who believe God is a joke so they can feel okay being greedy. You're focussed on cultural norms which has little to nothing to do with enlightenment.
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Post by freejoy on Aug 22, 2013 12:54:24 GMT -5
What good is a mansion to an enlightened person? What would an enlightened person want a motorcycle unless for traveling? Who needs a hammer unless they need one for a project, kind of unless. If people shared you could use theirs. Have you notice none of the books on enlightenment or the greed books that try to use God for money don't mention sharing? The day before yesterday I meet for the first time a homeless person seeking enlightenment. I didn't want to tell him the party is only for the wealthy. The ones who believe God is a joke so they can feel okay being greedy. You're focussed on cultural norms which has little to nothing to do with enlightenment. Cultural "abnorms" if you ask me. I don't expect to get enlightened any longer. Maybe one day if it is Gods Will.
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Post by Beingist on Aug 22, 2013 13:08:29 GMT -5
In my impersonal experience, these here critters are sharp as a tack. But incredibly indecisive, not to mention frantic. Easy roadkill.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 15:56:21 GMT -5
yes, and I'm thinking it might be wiser to emulate one of the smaller critters, you know, one that utilizes attentive observation , to navigate through the world. In my impersonal experience, these here critters are sharp as a tack.
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