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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:50:26 GMT -5
Seems like there is a lot of emphasis on Realization.
The biggies for me have been:
"The comic absurdity of meaningless perfect existence."
"The openness of 'Not Knowing'"
and
"The loss of the foundation of Selfhood or 'I' ".
These Realizations use to be important to me.
But now they seem secondary to Subjectivity
Seems to me that the "goal" or whatever of this path, or our existence, is not realization, but to be absorbed in the totality of our being instead of the body/mind perspective....i.e. the entire ocean and not just the wave in its various aspects.
What do you see as the most _________ of this path?
Realization, or releasing the objectivity of body/mind centeredness into an absolute subjectivity and why?
What is your opinion or experience of Absolute Subjectivity, and how does it relate to Realization?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 15:40:02 GMT -5
I suppose I've had three realizations, and the first one I was stoned on some green which I called "the god weed', so I'm not sure that one counts. hehe. But essentially it informed me about what my ego is, that there wasn't just one "Dan", but a whole bunch of them .. one for every occasion, as it were.
The second one that thoughts can't be trusted, and that one broke the habitual thinking stream, and silence was able to arise much more frequently.
The third one .. don't know exactly, cuz its still working on me, but something changed dramatically, or so it seems.
The only woo woo I've ever had was on acid, which during the event, many things were revealed as profound, but they were lost when it was over.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Aug 12, 2013 16:07:51 GMT -5
2st and hopefully last thread is awful btw
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 16:20:53 GMT -5
2st and hopefully last thread is awful btw you are almost an interesting person mr Q, not always productive or insightful, but curious none the less
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Post by silence on Aug 12, 2013 17:34:20 GMT -5
Seems like there is a lot of emphasis on Realization. The biggies for me have been: "The comic absurdity of meaningless perfect existence." "The openness of 'Not Knowing'" and "The loss of the foundation of Selfhood or 'I' ". These Realizations use to be important to me. But now they seem secondary to Subjectivity Seems to me that the "goal" or whatever of this path, or our existence, is not realization, but to be absorbed in the totality of our being instead of the body/mind perspective....i.e. the entire ocean and not just the wave in its various aspects. What do you see as the most _________ of this path? Realization, or releasing the objectivity of body/mind centeredness into an absolute subjectivity and why? What is your opinion or experience of Absolute Subjectivity, and how does it relate to Realization? The goal if there ever was one is self honesty. Nothing genuine can occur without this.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 17:44:24 GMT -5
Seems like there is a lot of emphasis on Realization. The biggies for me have been: "The comic absurdity of meaningless perfect existence." "The openness of 'Not Knowing'" and "The loss of the foundation of Selfhood or 'I' ". These Realizations use to be important to me. But now they seem secondary to Subjectivity Seems to me that the "goal" or whatever of this path, or our existence, is not realization, but to be absorbed in the totality of our being instead of the body/mind perspective....i.e. the entire ocean and not just the wave in its various aspects. What do you see as the most _________ of this path? Realization, or releasing the objectivity of body/mind centeredness into an absolute subjectivity and why? What is your opinion or experience of Absolute Subjectivity, and how does it relate to Realization? The goal if there ever was one is self honesty. Nothing genuine can occur without this. Okay, and what is the "goal" of self honesty, what is the "result". Also, what is a genuine occurrence?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 17:48:42 GMT -5
I suppose I've had three realizations, and the first one I was stoned on some green which I called "the god weed', so I'm not sure that one counts. hehe. But essentially it informed me about what my ego is, that there wasn't just one "Dan", but a whole bunch of them .. one for every occasion, as it were. The second one that thoughts can't be trusted, and that one broke the habitual thinking stream, and silence was able to arise much more frequently. The third one .. don't know exactly, cuz its still working on me, but something changed dramatically, or so it seems. The only woo woo I've ever had was on acid, which during the event, many things were revealed as profound, but they were lost when it was over. And what about absolute subjectivity? Have you had any experience of a kind of absolute subjectivity where everything , including yourself, is the observed?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Aug 12, 2013 17:50:33 GMT -5
The goal if there ever was one is self honesty. Nothing genuine can occur without this. I disagree. If a lie makes life bearable then why not use it? The most important thing in life is pleasure and not truth. Life is finite. A miserable life lived in truth is worse that a fake life lived in pleasure.
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Post by topology on Aug 12, 2013 17:56:48 GMT -5
The goal if there ever was one is self honesty. Nothing genuine can occur without this. I disagree. If a lie makes life bearable then why not use it? The most important thing in life is pleasure and not truth. Life is finite. A miserable life lived in truth is worse that a fake life lived in pleasure. Sounds like a subjective judgment call. living in tune with one's values is common to both.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:28:00 GMT -5
And what about subjectivity? Have you had any experience of a kind of absolute subjectivity where everything , including yourself, is the observed? 1) existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective ). 2) pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation. 3) placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric. 4) Philosophy . relating to or of the nature of an object as it is known in the mind as distinct from a thing in itself. 5) relating to properties or specific conditions of the mind as distinguished from general or universal experience. sorry, I needed to research that common word to get a better understanding of your question. looks like Mind is a common theme. isn't your question a hypothetical about mind looking at mind?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:28:26 GMT -5
I disagree. If a lie makes life bearable then why not use it? The most important thing in life is pleasure and not truth. Life is finite. A miserable life lived in truth is worse that a fake life lived in pleasure. Sounds like a subjective judgment call. living in tune with one's values is common to both. Aye....and....truth is relative
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:33:20 GMT -5
And what about subjectivity? Have you had any experience of a kind of absolute subjectivity where everything , including yourself, is the observed? 1) existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective ). 2) pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation. 3) placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric. 4) Philosophy . relating to or of the nature of an object as it is known in the mind as distinct from a thing in itself. 5) relating to properties or specific conditions of the mind as distinguished from general or universal experience. sorry, I needed to research that common word to get a better understanding of your question. looks like Mind is a common theme. isn't your question a hypothetical about mind looking at mind? Actually, I had to edit that post, I left out the word "absolute", as in absolute subjectivity. Meaning that all things are an occurrence or phenomena (including your own mind) of the undifferentiated and undefined subject/self
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:43:57 GMT -5
Actually, I had to edit that post, I left out the word "absolute", as in absolute subjectivity. Meaning that all things are an occurrence or phenomena (including your own mind) of the undifferentiated and undefined subject/self ha! I'm going to need a bigger dictionary. ;-) so I'm guessing I'll just answer "No", and leave it at that. this falls into my category of 'over thinking' things, and I'd almost concede that I'm moving too far in the other direction, but that's where I'm at now, so it will just have to play its self out...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 18:56:44 GMT -5
Actually, I had to edit that post, I left out the word "absolute", as in absolute subjectivity. Meaning that all things are an occurrence or phenomena (including your own mind) of the undifferentiated and undefined subject/self ha! I'm going to need a bigger dictionary. ;-) so I'm guessing I'll just answer "No", and leave it at that. this falls into my category of 'over thinking' things, and I'd almost concede that I'm moving too far in the other direction, but that's where I'm at now, so it will just have to play its self out... Yeah, it always happens that when you tread turf that is "out at the limit" as Laughy called it, language fails and attempts can lead to TMT. Ever had an experience where "you" where just an observed phenomena occurring, with no definable observer and no sense of personal engagement in whatever "you" were doing or thinking?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 19:13:35 GMT -5
Yeah, it always happens that when you tread turf that is "out at the limit" as Laughy called it, language fails and attempts can lead to TMT. Ever had an experience where "you" where just an observed phenomena occurring, with no definable observer and no sense of personal engagement in whatever "you" were doing or thinking? I don't think in terms of 'an experience' which is then recorded and categorized. Its more like one long continuous note being played, if that makes any sense. So I'm not sure how you cut that up into segments. but yes, I'd say I am familiar with "no sense of personal engagement"
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