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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 20, 2014 7:42:58 GMT -5
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 24, 2014 13:59:15 GMT -5
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Post by arisha on Mar 24, 2014 14:38:15 GMT -5
But it was first said on the Russian TV about the radioactive ashes. I have friends in the Ukraine, in Donetsk, and in Kiev, and in the Crimea, - all are Russians. They say they don't feel being abused in the Ukraine. And I also have friends in Russia who are ashamed of what is going on, of Putin and his intervention into the Ukraine.
It is evident that there are ONLY geopolitical interests in this crisis. Do you really think they care about people, BB?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 24, 2014 16:49:52 GMT -5
Ukraine admitted that half of Ukraine's military forces (9000 soldiers) in Crimea deserted to Russia. But this information comes from Ukraine's government, so most likely the number is a lot higher. Then some info about what Germany's population thinks, but notice that Der Spiegel is very russophobe, it used to be a very respected newspaper, but now we jokingly call it "the former newspaper". Today I saw a political talkshow about Crimea crisis. Four people were invited. A woman from the Left party who argued pro-Russia. A russophobe guy from CDU, a former russophobe General, and some Polish russophobe journalist. So 1 vs 3. At the end of the talkshow there was a vote from the viewers and 75% were pro-Russia. The point is that people aren't buying the propaganda anymore, there is a huge disconnect between reality and the reporting and people are noticing it.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 24, 2014 17:04:29 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 17:45:56 GMT -5
Grenade throwing and rifle shooting? What the hell does that have to do with getting in shape? It's a return to tribalism.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 24, 2014 17:55:40 GMT -5
Grenade throwing and rifle shooting? What the hell does that have to do with getting in shape? It's a return to tribalism. Why tribalism? The article says it's not yet clear what the sports will be. I don't think that they will practise throwing grenades, but I wouldn't mind. They will throw some other objects, same thing. I don't see anything wrong with shooting practise... it's even an olympic sport. I don't see anything wrong with people knowing how to defend themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 18:24:33 GMT -5
It's what was in place before the Soviet Union. The article says it's not yet clear what the sports will be. They're probably doing an inventory on bullets and grenades as we type. I don't think that they will practise throwing grenades, but I wouldn't mind. They will throw some other objects, same thing. I don't see anything wrong with shooting practise... it's even an olympic sport. I don't see anything wrong with people knowing how to defend themselves. What's wrong with riding a bike, or chopping wood and carrying water?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 24, 2014 18:38:23 GMT -5
What's wrong with riding a bike, or chopping wood and carrying water? But they do that already anyways. I still don't get what it has to do with tribalism.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 18:39:41 GMT -5
What's wrong with riding a bike, or chopping wood and carrying water? But they do that already anyways. I still don't get what it has to do with tribalism. Does the whole of the Ukraine speak Russian, or just Crimea?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 24, 2014 18:42:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 19:19:41 GMT -5
I haven't been following this thread all along, so I'm not sure if elections were only held in, Crimea, or all of the Ukraine. But it does appear that Crimea has stayed true to the Russian culture. Which would align with Putin's vision of a strong Russia. Culture would be a big part of that, and a very tribal facet of that identity. Politics in this country has become very tribal.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 24, 2014 20:03:59 GMT -5
I haven't been following this thread all along, so I'm not sure if elections were only held in, Crimea, or all of the Ukraine. But it does appear that Crimea has stayed true to the Russian culture. Which would align with Putin's vision of a strong Russia. Culture would be a big part of that, and a very tribal facet of that identity. Politics in this country has become very tribal. It seems like you know very little about the situation. As for Ukraine, it's an artificial state. There is no Ukrainian ethnicity. Ukraine means "borderland". U means "on" and krai means "border". On the border. This land was always contested, since the very beginning, from Russia in the east, and Poland and other western countries from the west. But Russia was born in what is now the Ukraine. Its capital, Kiev, is called the "mother of Russian cities". At some point, I think in the early 18th century, people who lived in Ukraine have had enough and began defending themselves more, that's when the Kossaks came into play. They were important for creating some sort of Ukrainian identity. Then later intellectuals started carving out a national Ukraine identity. Fast forward to now. President Yanukovich was elected in 2010. The next elections would have been in 2015. He was negotiating a EU association plan, but he quit the negotiations because the plan they presented him was terrible, and he was closer to signing a plan to join the Russian Eurasian union. That's when the demonstrations began. Then they escalated because of fascist paramilitaries, who are organized and paid by western powers (not officially, but we all know what's up). Then they made a coup. Crimea was pro-Yanukovich. Now they had to witness that fascists took power, imagine how they must feel after they (Russians) defeated Hitler, and now again fascists are taking power and are threatening Russians. Right now de facto Ukraine's constitution is gone, nobody can enforce the law, the rulers are criminals, the parliament is illegitimate, all new laws they make are illegitimate. At the same time the fascists constantly make threats against Russians, so Crimea says "screw this, we won't be part of it". So they declare independence, and then ask Russia for protection, and they initiate a referendum to join Russia. Crimea is historically always been Russian eversince I think Catherine the Great conquered it back from the Tatars (muslim invaders). Crimea ended up with Ukraine because in 1954 Chrushtchev gave it to Ukraine because some stupid domestic issues in USSR, so there was no referendum or anything back then. About the tribalism issue. Russians have zero problems with Ukrainians or any other slavic people. We are all one slavic people, look up panslavism. If you watch Russian TV they always say that Ukrainians are our brothers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 20:23:33 GMT -5
I haven't been following this thread all along, so I'm not sure if elections were only held in, Crimea, or all of the Ukraine. But it does appear that Crimea has stayed true to the Russian culture. Which would align with Putin's vision of a strong Russia. Culture would be a big part of that, and a very tribal facet of that identity. Politics in this country has become very tribal. It seems like you know very little about the situation. As for Ukraine, it's an artificial state. There is no Ukrainian ethnicity. Ukraine means "borderland". U means "on" and krai means "border". On the border. This land was always contested, since the very beginning, from Russia in the east, and Poland and other western countries from the west. But Russia was born in what is now the Ukraine. Its capital, Kiev, is called the "mother of Russian cities". At some point, I think in the early 18th century, people who lived in Ukraine have had enough and began defending themselves more, that's when the Kossaks came into play. They were important for creating some sort of Ukrainian identity. Then later intellectuals started carving out a national Ukraine identity. Fast forward to now. President Yanukovich was elected in 2010. The next elections would have been in 2015. He was negotiating a EU association plan, but he quit the negotiations because the plan they presented him was terrible, and he was closer to signing a plan to join the Russian Eurasian union. That's when the demonstrations began. Then they escalated because of fascist paramilitaries, who are organized and paid by western powers (not officially, but we all know what's up). Then they made a coup. Crimea was pro-Yanukovich. Now they had to witness that fascists took power, imagine how they must feel after they (Russians) defeated Hitler, and now again fascists are taking power and are threatening Russians. Right now de facto Ukraine's constitution is gone, nobody can enforce the law, the rulers are criminals, the parliament is illegitimate, all new laws they make are illegitimate. At the same time the fascists constantly make threats against Russians, so Crimea says "screw this, we won't be part of it". So they declare independence, and then ask Russia for protection, and they initiate a referendum to join Russia. Crimea is historically always been Russian eversince I think Catherine the Great conquered it back from the Tatars (muslim invaders). Crimea ended up with Ukraine because in 1954 Chrushtchev gave it to Ukraine because some stupid domestic issues in USSR, so there was no referendum or anything back then. About the tribalism issue. Russians have zero problems with Ukrainians or any other slavic people. We are all one slavic people, look up panslavism. If you watch Russian TV they always say that Ukrainians are our brothers. I found this interesting with regard to panslavism... "Although early Pan-Slavism had found interest among some Poles, it soon lost its appeal as the movement became dominated by Russia, and while Russian Pan-Slavists spoke of liberation of other Slavs through Russian actions, parts of Poland had been ruled by the Russian Empire since the Partitions of Poland. Historically, Poland often saw itself in partnership with non-Slavic nations most of the time, such as Hungary (see the phrase "Pole and Hungarian cousins be"), Saxony, Sweden or Lithuania under the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth from 1569 to 1795. Especially after 1795, Revolutionary and Napoleonic France was esteemed by most Poles at that time as the best champion for the reconstitution of their country as it was a mutual enemy of Austria, Prussia and Russia. The influence of 19th century Pan-Slavism had little impact in Poland except for creating sympathy towards the other oppressed Slavic nations to regaining independence. At the same time while Pan-Slavism worked against Austro-Hungary with South Slavs, Poles enjoyed a wide autonomy within the state and assumed a loyalist position as they were able to develop their national culture and preserve Polish language, something under threat in both German and Russian Empires. A Pan-Slavic federation was proposed, but on the condition that the Russian Empire would be excluded from such an entity. After Poland regained its independence (from Germany, Austria and Russia) in 1918 no major or minor force considered Pan-Slavism as a serious alternative, viewing Pan-Slavism as little more than a code word for Russification. During Poland's communist era the USSR used Pan-Slavism as propaganda tool to justify its control over the country. The issue of the Pan-Slavism was not part of the mainstream political agenda, and is widely seen as an ideology of Russian imperialism." So, that's probably the lens I'm looking through with regard to Putin, and what is taking place in Ukraine/Crimea. Vlady Godiva isn't fooling me.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Mar 24, 2014 20:33:49 GMT -5
I'm not saying that we should make up some Panslavic empire. I'm just saying that Russians see other Slavs as part of family, but it doesn't mean that they should be invaded.
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