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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2013 17:53:37 GMT -5
What's the difference between a Woo-woo and a Realisation?
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Post by topology on Aug 3, 2013 18:37:45 GMT -5
What's the difference between a Woo-woo and a Realisation? After years of seeking unity and harmony with God: A realization: "I am not separate from God" (realization is prior to thought, the result of seeing the true nature of things) The temporary woo-woo experience in response to the realization: The mass of 'separate' emotion and mind dissolves, everything is experienced to be Holy and Divine, everything is laced with meaning, you walk through the world temporarily with a blank mind, perhaps you even feel like the presence of God itself. Everything is experienced to be happening seamlessly, non-local, a fluid unitary movement to the universe. And then the mind returns with its conditioning, but with a new data point which forever informs it about the true nature of reality. It's not just the memory of the woo-woo experience. The event of consciousness sans the dominance of the mind gives it a permanent perspective on everything the mind does and makes it easier and easier for the mind to dissolve again. But the height of woo-woo is contrasted with the depth of feeling lost and disconnected. As the oscillations even out, the woo-woo experiences become normal, unremarkable, and often interrupt the practical process of living life. The world is unforgiving if you go into cosmic consciousness in the middle of operating a crane or driving during rush hour traffic in Dallas. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 3, 2013 20:13:16 GMT -5
What's the difference between a Woo-woo and a Realisation? After years of seeking unity and harmony with God: A realization: "I am not separate from God" (realization is prior to thought, the result of seeing the true nature of things) The temporary woo-woo experience in response to the realization: The mass of 'separate' emotion and mind dissolves, everything is experienced to be Holy and Divine, everything is laced with meaning, you walk through the world temporarily with a blank mind, perhaps you even feel like the presence of God itself. Everything is experienced to be happening seamlessly, non-local, a fluid unitary movement to the universe. And then the mind returns with its conditioning, but with a new data point which forever informs it about the true nature of reality. It's not just the memory of the woo-woo experience. The event of consciousness sans the dominance of the mind gives it a permanent perspective on everything the mind does and makes it easier and easier for the mind to dissolve again. But the height of woo-woo is contrasted with the depth of feeling lost and disconnected. As the oscillations even out, the woo-woo experiences become normal, unremarkable, and often interrupt the practical process of living life. The world is unforgiving if you go into cosmic consciousness in the middle of operating a crane or driving during rush hour traffic in Dallas. Great answer topo' ... to the bold I say, maybe. |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 3, 2013 20:22:02 GMT -5
What's the difference between a Woo-woo and a Realisation? After years of seeking unity and harmony with God: A realization: "I am not separate from God" (realization is prior to thought, the result of seeing the true nature of things) The temporary woo-woo experience in response to the realization: The mass of 'separate' emotion and mind dissolves, everything is experienced to be Holy and Divine, everything is laced with meaning, you walk through the world temporarily with a blank mind, perhaps you even feel like the presence of God itself. Everything is experienced to be happening seamlessly, non-local, a fluid unitary movement to the universe. And then the mind returns with its conditioning, but with a new data point which forever informs it about the true nature of reality. It's not just the memory of the woo-woo experience. The event of consciousness sans the dominance of the mind gives it a permanent perspective on everything the mind does and makes it easier and easier for the mind to dissolve again. But the height of woo-woo is contrasted with the depth of feeling lost and disconnected. As the oscillations even out, the woo-woo experiences become normal, unremarkable, and often interrupt the practical process of living life. The world is unforgiving if you go into cosmic consciousness in the middle of operating a crane or driving during rush hour traffic in Dallas. I agree with Top. A woo-woo experience is usually a non-local or non-ordinary experience that has duration in time. Samadhi could be considered a woo-woo experience because time, space, and selfhood disappear for a while (usually for a period of time lasting from a half hour to several hours), and only pure awareness remains. An experience of onenesss, or cosmic consciousness, is the all-time classic woo-woo experience. Zen calls it "kensho," and defines it as "seeing into one's true nature." It becomes obvious that the universe is perfect just as it is, and one sees that it is a unified whole, infinite, intelligent, and loving. After one comes back to "normal," reality is never again understood in the same way as before. The mind becomes informed that separateness is a cognitive illusion. A realization, by contrast, happens suddenly. It is not an experience because it does not happen over a period of time. From my POV it is not really a woo-woo kind of thing because nothing unusual is seen except the falsity of a past idea. One simply sees what is NOT true. There may be some internal laughter because one often sees through a strongly-held misconception, and realizes how silly the thought was to which the mind was attached. Mind can then reach various conclusions based upon what has been realized. A woo-woo experience can lead to many realizations (time and space are illusions, the universe is a unified whole, causality is an illusion, etc,) but usually a body/mind comes out of such an experience thinking that the experience happened to a person. Only when it is realized who the experiencer IS, does the illusion of selfhood finally get seen through. |
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Post by silence on Aug 3, 2013 20:27:19 GMT -5
One temporarily changes what you're seeing while the other fundamentally changes how you see.
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Post by topology on Aug 3, 2013 20:36:17 GMT -5
One temporarily changes what you're seeing while the other fundamentally changes how you see. ^^^ The most concise answer.  |
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Post by runstill on Aug 3, 2013 22:15:43 GMT -5
After years of seeking unity and harmony with God: A realization: "I am not separate from God" (realization is prior to thought, the result of seeing the true nature of things) The temporary woo-woo experience in response to the realization: The mass of 'separate' emotion and mind dissolves, everything is experienced to be Holy and Divine, everything is laced with meaning, you walk through the world temporarily with a blank mind, perhaps you even feel like the presence of God itself. Everything is experienced to be happening seamlessly, non-local, a fluid unitary movement to the universe. And then the mind returns with its conditioning, but with a new data point which forever informs it about the true nature of reality. It's not just the memory of the woo-woo experience. The event of consciousness sans the dominance of the mind gives it a permanent perspective on everything the mind does and makes it easier and easier for the mind to dissolve again. But the height of woo-woo is contrasted with the depth of feeling lost and disconnected. As the oscillations even out, the woo-woo experiences become normal, unremarkable, and often interrupt the practical process of living life. The world is unforgiving if you go into cosmic consciousness in the middle of operating a crane or driving during rush hour traffic in Dallas. I agree with Top. A woo-woo experience is usually a non-local or non-ordinary experience that has duration in time. Samadhi could be considered a woo-woo experience because time, space, and selfhood disappear for a while (usually for a period of time lasting from a half hour to several hours), and only pure awareness remains. An experience of onenesss, or cosmic consciousness, is the all-time classic woo-woo experience. Zen calls it "kensho," and defines it as "seeing into one's true nature." It becomes obvious that the universe is perfect just as it is, and one sees that it is a unified whole, infinite, intelligent, and loving. After one comes back to "normal," reality is never again understood in the same way as before. The mind becomes informed that separateness is a cognitive illusion. A realization, by contrast, happens suddenly. It is not an experience because it does not happen over a period of time. From my POV it is not really a woo-woo kind of thing because nothing unusual is seen except the falsity of a past idea. One simply sees what is NOT true. There may be some internal laughter because one often sees through a strongly-held misconception, and realizes how silly the thought was to which the mind was attached. Mind can then reach various conclusions based upon what has been realized. A woo-woo experience can lead to many realizations (time and space are illusions, the universe is a unified whole, causality is an illusion, etc,) but usually a body/mind comes out of such an experience thinking that the experience happened to a person. Only when it is realized who the experiencer IS, does the illusion of selfhood finally get seen through. The most clear response..... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 1:49:50 GMT -5
Many Thanx.
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Post by Reefs on Aug 4, 2013 3:56:16 GMT -5
One temporarily changes what you're seeing while the other fundamentally changes how you see. Right. Woo-woo is about what is seen, mindscape content. Realization is about how is seen, i.e. mindscape content absolutely irrelevant. So for woo-woo there are pills. For realization, there aren't.  |
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Post by serpentqueen on Aug 4, 2013 9:39:47 GMT -5
One temporarily changes what you're seeing while the other fundamentally changes how you see. Right. Woo-woo is about what is seen, mindscape content. Realization is about how is seen, i.e. mindscape content absolutely irrelevant. So for woo-woo there are pills. For realization, there aren't. People having woo-woo in the context of religion, meditation, spirituality do not get pills. It's only those having spontaneous woo woo outside of those contexts that get pills. |
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Post by Reefs on Aug 4, 2013 10:07:40 GMT -5
Right. Woo-woo is about what is seen, mindscape content. Realization is about how is seen, i.e. mindscape content absolutely irrelevant. So for woo-woo there are pills. For realization, there aren't. People having woo-woo in the context of religion, meditation, spirituality do not get pills. It's only those having spontaneous woo woo outside of those contexts that get pills. There are pills that can induce woo-woo, but there are no pills that can induce realization. |
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Post by serpentqueen on Aug 4, 2013 10:19:04 GMT -5
After years of seeking unity and harmony with God: A realization: "I am not separate from God" (realization is prior to thought, the result of seeing the true nature of things) The temporary woo-woo experience in response to the realization: The mass of 'separate' emotion and mind dissolves, everything is experienced to be Holy and Divine, everything is laced with meaning, you walk through the world temporarily with a blank mind, perhaps you even feel like the presence of God itself. Everything is experienced to be happening seamlessly, non-local, a fluid unitary movement to the universe. And then the mind returns with its conditioning, but with a new data point which forever informs it about the true nature of reality. It's not just the memory of the woo-woo experience. The event of consciousness sans the dominance of the mind gives it a permanent perspective on everything the mind does and makes it easier and easier for the mind to dissolve again. But the height of woo-woo is contrasted with the depth of feeling lost and disconnected. As the oscillations even out, the woo-woo experiences become normal, unremarkable, and often interrupt the practical process of living life. The world is unforgiving if you go into cosmic consciousness in the middle of operating a crane or driving during rush hour traffic in Dallas. I agree with Top. A woo-woo experience is usually a non-local or non-ordinary experience that has duration in time. Samadhi could be considered a woo-woo experience because time, space, and selfhood disappear for a while (usually for a period of time lasting from a half hour to several hours), and only pure awareness remains. An experience of onenesss, or cosmic consciousness, is the all-time classic woo-woo experience. Zen calls it "kensho," and defines it as "seeing into one's true nature." It becomes obvious that the universe is perfect just as it is, and one sees that it is a unified whole, infinite, intelligent, and loving. After one comes back to "normal," reality is never again understood in the same way as before. The mind becomes informed that separateness is a cognitive illusion. A realization, by contrast, happens suddenly. It is not an experience because it does not happen over a period of time. From my POV it is not really a woo-woo kind of thing because nothing unusual is seen except the falsity of a past idea. One simply sees what is NOT true. There may be some internal laughter because one often sees through a strongly-held misconception, and realizes how silly the thought was to which the mind was attached. Mind can then reach various conclusions based upon what has been realized. A woo-woo experience can lead to many realizations (time and space are illusions, the universe is a unified whole, causality is an illusion, etc,) but usually a body/mind comes out of such an experience thinking that the experience happened to a person. Only when it is realized who the experiencer IS, does the illusion of selfhood finally get seen through. When I realized the illusion of selfhood it unleashed a serious case of the uncontrollable, out loud giggles as suddenly all the past woo-woo experiences were put into context, including the time my shrink told me I was having an "identity" crisis. I mean, c'mon.. isn't that hilarious? It only occurred to me this week that the "hallucinations" I had all those years ago were showing me everything, I just didn't realize what was being shown until recently. I saw, visually, people's bodies being dissolved and pure light shining out. Dissolution of self. D'oh! So obvious now. Yet I went around for years trying to "fix" self instead, thinking that was the problem. Another analogy is Wizard of Oz. Dorothy's colorful adventures in Oz were her woo-woo. Her realization was when she clicked her ruby red slippers and went home in an instant. I always found it interesting that she returns home to the same black & white Kansas that the movie started off with, rather than Kansas in full technicolor. |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 4, 2013 10:20:28 GMT -5
Right. Woo-woo is about what is seen, mindscape content. Realization is about how is seen, i.e. mindscape content absolutely irrelevant. So for woo-woo there are pills. For realization, there aren't. People having woo-woo in the context of religion, meditation, spirituality do not get pills. It's only those having spontaneous woo woo outside of those contexts that get pills. So true. After I started doing heavy meditation thirty years ago, I had days when it felt like I was dragging around a dead corpse. The fatigue was unbeliveable at times. I had other days when I was bursting with energy even though I hadn't had much sleep. It was clear to me at that time that both kinds of somatic phenomena were being caused by the meditation, and it never occurred to me to seek medical help. If I had gone to an MD, she would probably have concluded that I was a manic-depressive and put me on lithium. |
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Post by zendancer on Aug 4, 2013 10:27:12 GMT -5
I agree with Top. A woo-woo experience is usually a non-local or non-ordinary experience that has duration in time. Samadhi could be considered a woo-woo experience because time, space, and selfhood disappear for a while (usually for a period of time lasting from a half hour to several hours), and only pure awareness remains. An experience of onenesss, or cosmic consciousness, is the all-time classic woo-woo experience. Zen calls it "kensho," and defines it as "seeing into one's true nature." It becomes obvious that the universe is perfect just as it is, and one sees that it is a unified whole, infinite, intelligent, and loving. After one comes back to "normal," reality is never again understood in the same way as before. The mind becomes informed that separateness is a cognitive illusion. A realization, by contrast, happens suddenly. It is not an experience because it does not happen over a period of time. From my POV it is not really a woo-woo kind of thing because nothing unusual is seen except the falsity of a past idea. One simply sees what is NOT true. There may be some internal laughter because one often sees through a strongly-held misconception, and realizes how silly the thought was to which the mind was attached. Mind can then reach various conclusions based upon what has been realized. A woo-woo experience can lead to many realizations (time and space are illusions, the universe is a unified whole, causality is an illusion, etc,) but usually a body/mind comes out of such an experience thinking that the experience happened to a person. Only when it is realized who the experiencer IS, does the illusion of selfhood finally get seen through. When I realized the illusion of selfhood it unleashed a serious case of the uncontrollable, out loud giggles as suddenly all the past woo-woo experiences were put into context, including the time my shrink told me I was having an "identity" crisis. I mean, c'mon.. isn't that hilarious? It only occurred to me this week that the "hallucinations" I had all those years ago were showing me everything, I just didn't realize what was being shown until recently. I saw, visually, people's bodies being dissolved and pure light shining out. Dissolution of self. D'oh! So obvious now. Yet I went around for years trying to "fix" self instead, thinking that was the problem. Another analogy is Wizard of Oz. Dorothy's colorful adventures in Oz were her woo-woo. Her realization was when she clicked her ruby red slippers and went home in an instant. I always found it interesting that she returns home to the same black & white Kansas that the movie started off with, rather than Kansas in full technicolor. Yes, I meant to respond to your earlier post about seeing holes in people with light shining through. The same thought occurred to me as what you wrote about here, and it reminded me of my first woo-woo experience in which a huge hole opened up in the center of the body of a guy I was talking to. It was some sort of strange perceptual thing, but at the time it felt like I was seeing right through him and through the walls behind him. I had to concentrate really hard to keep his body intact and to close the hole. That scared me and I thought, "Holy cow, I could totally lose touch with reality if I'm not careful." Ha ha. |
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Post by silver on Aug 4, 2013 10:29:34 GMT -5
What's the difference between a Woo-woo and a Realisation? After years of seeking unity and harmony with God: A realization: "I am not separate from God" (realization is prior to thought, the result of seeing the true nature of things) The temporary woo-woo experience in response to the realization: The mass of 'separate' emotion and mind dissolves, everything is experienced to be Holy and Divine, everything is laced with meaning, you walk through the world temporarily with a blank mind, perhaps you even feel like the presence of God itself. Everything is experienced to be happening seamlessly, non-local, a fluid unitary movement to the universe. And then the mind returns with its conditioning, but with a new data point which forever informs it about the true nature of reality. It's not just the memory of the woo-woo experience. The event of consciousness sans the dominance of the mind gives it a permanent perspective on everything the mind does and makes it easier and easier for the mind to dissolve again. But the height of woo-woo is contrasted with the depth of feeling lost and disconnected. As the oscillations even out, the woo-woo experiences become normal, unremarkable, and often interrupt the practical process of living life. The world is unforgiving if you go into cosmic consciousness in the middle of operating a crane or driving during rush hour traffic in Dallas. I think that's the significant issue with going all woowoo.  .....But, if it starts happening to more and more people, maybe this potential widespread woo-woo is what is meant by the rapture. I'm seriously worried. Guess people are gonna be going up one way or t'other. Jail cells may be filled with religious nuts in the future.  |
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