|
Post by serpentqueen on Aug 4, 2013 10:35:27 GMT -5
People having woo-woo in the context of religion, meditation, spirituality do not get pills. It's only those having spontaneous woo woo outside of those contexts that get pills. So true. After I started doing heavy meditation thirty years ago, I had days when it felt like I was dragging around a dead corpse. The fatigue was unbeliveable at times. I had other days when I was bursting with energy even though I hadn't had much sleep. It was clear to me at that time that both kinds of somatic phenomena were being caused by the meditation, and it never occurred to me to seek medical help. If I had gone to an MD, she would probably have concluded that I was a manic-depressive and put me on lithium. You know it's all rather interesting because when I shared my experiences with religious/spiritual types, I'd often get told "you weren't crazy you were just having a spiritual experience." And, I resisted that. It seemed more likely it was a "somatic phenomenon," as you put it. But I also resisted any notion I was insane -- that just didn't make sense either. This last therapist I saw, earlier in this year, was good because she dismissed both spiritual or biological/mental illness model. However, then she went down the psychological model, and encouraged me to tell her stories about my life, and encouraged me to explore what the syncronicities were saying about "me." Week after week, I sat there and listened to myself telling her the story of "me" -- and that also felt false. It was just this nagging "no, this isn't right either" feeling. That's when I finally packed up and went to that retreat. After the retreat, I never went back to the therapist and I never will.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 4, 2013 10:42:27 GMT -5
After years of seeking unity and harmony with God: A realization: "I am not separate from God" (realization is prior to thought, the result of seeing the true nature of things) The temporary woo-woo experience in response to the realization: The mass of 'separate' emotion and mind dissolves, everything is experienced to be Holy and Divine, everything is laced with meaning, you walk through the world temporarily with a blank mind, perhaps you even feel like the presence of God itself. Everything is experienced to be happening seamlessly, non-local, a fluid unitary movement to the universe. And then the mind returns with its conditioning, but with a new data point which forever informs it about the true nature of reality. It's not just the memory of the woo-woo experience. The event of consciousness sans the dominance of the mind gives it a permanent perspective on everything the mind does and makes it easier and easier for the mind to dissolve again. But the height of woo-woo is contrasted with the depth of feeling lost and disconnected. As the oscillations even out, the woo-woo experiences become normal, unremarkable, and often interrupt the practical process of living life. The world is unforgiving if you go into cosmic consciousness in the middle of operating a crane or driving during rush hour traffic in Dallas. I think that's the significant issue with going all woowoo. .....But, if it starts happening to more and more people, maybe this potential widespread woo-woo is what is meant by the rapture. I'm seriously worried. Guess people are gonna be going up one way or t'other. Jail cells may be filled with religious nuts in the future. Actually, that's the only line in Top's post that I didn't resonate with. In the midst of major woo-woo experiences, THIS has always operated with supreme intelligence without any participation by a person. The first question my mother asked me after an initial kensho experience was, "What would have happened if this.....THING.....had happened to you while you were driving your daughter somewhere?" Ha ha. All I could think at the time was, "I don't know," but I intuitively felt confident that everything would be okay. Later, after reading Suzanne Segal's story, it became obvious that THIS functions just fine in the total absence of a person. In her case, selfhood vanished suddenly, and didn't return for at least twelve years, and the body/mind functioned just fine in "her" absence. As for "the Rapture," that's an idea that probably needs to get "left behind." (pun intended)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 10:43:35 GMT -5
what about clairvoyants, healers, and other mystical 'talents? is that stuff "woo woo"?
|
|
|
Post by silver on Aug 4, 2013 10:46:49 GMT -5
I think that's the significant issue with going all woowoo. .....But, if it starts happening to more and more people, maybe this potential widespread woo-woo is what is meant by the rapture. I'm seriously worried. Guess people are gonna be going up one way or t'other. Jail cells may be filled with religious nuts in the future. Actually, that's the only line in Top's post that I didn't resonate with. In the midst of major woo-woo experiences, THIS has always operated with supreme intelligence without any participation by a person. The first question my mother asked me after an initial kensho experience was, "What would have happened if this.....THING.....had happened to you while you were driving your daughter somewhere?" Ha ha. All I could think at the time was, "I don't know," but I intuitively felt confident that everything would be okay. Later, after reading Suzanne Segal's story, it became obvious that THIS functions just fine in the total absence of a person. In her case, selfhood vanished suddenly, and didn't return for at least twelve years, and the body/mind functioned just fine in "her" absence. As for "the Rapture," that's an idea that probably needs to get "left behind." (pun intended) good one, zd.
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Aug 4, 2013 10:57:17 GMT -5
When I realized the illusion of selfhood it unleashed a serious case of the uncontrollable, out loud giggles as suddenly all the past woo-woo experiences were put into context, including the time my shrink told me I was having an "identity" crisis. I mean, c'mon.. isn't that hilarious? It only occurred to me this week that the "hallucinations" I had all those years ago were showing me everything, I just didn't realize what was being shown until recently. I saw, visually, people's bodies being dissolved and pure light shining out. Dissolution of self. D'oh! So obvious now. Yet I went around for years trying to "fix" self instead, thinking that was the problem. Another analogy is Wizard of Oz. Dorothy's colorful adventures in Oz were her woo-woo. Her realization was when she clicked her ruby red slippers and went home in an instant. I always found it interesting that she returns home to the same black & white Kansas that the movie started off with, rather than Kansas in full technicolor. Yes, I meant to respond to your earlier post about seeing holes in people with light shining through. The same thought occurred to me as what you wrote about here, and it reminded me of my first woo-woo experience in which a huge hole opened up in the center of the body of a guy I was talking to. It was some sort of strange perceptual thing, but at the time it felt like I was seeing right through him and through the walls behind him. I had to concentrate really hard to keep his body intact and to close the hole. That scared me and I thought, "Holy cow, I could totally lose touch with reality if I'm not careful." Ha ha. This was going on for a period of three months - and it was with everyone I encountered. I have shared that experience over the years in a variety of online forums, so I can go back to old posts and confirm that I'm not unwittingly modifying the memory, as tends to happen with all memories over time. Like any woo-woo experience, that experience was incredibly impactful and unforgettable -- though unexplainable. If I had been meditating, at least I could have explained it that way, but I didn't even have that. The mind is apt to search for a cause, and this mind did so for years on end. Some suggested maybe I was seeing auras, so I looked into that, and no, it wasn't auras. It was only when I was typing out that long reply to you the other day, that it all clicked into place! There are a lot of experiences (big and little) I've had in my life that now make perfect sense in retrospect. Maybe that is another hallmark of a realization? Also, now that I go back and re-read certain teachings, they finally make total sense too. Like I said, Jesus' words now make total sense. I never encountered Niz before now, but he makes sense too. Anyway, I've been reading your posts on the blog and enjoying them very much. I see that you are 69 and had your realization in your 40s? I would love to hear more about how it unfolded immediately post-realization for you. I am kind of like a kid in the candy store at the moment, as this is all rather new for me. Like, for example, I'll find myself thinking, "but what do I DO with this realization?" Then I'll find myself chuckling, "there's nothing to do!" Mostly there's just this .... relief.
|
|
|
Post by silence on Aug 4, 2013 11:28:20 GMT -5
Yes, I meant to respond to your earlier post about seeing holes in people with light shining through. The same thought occurred to me as what you wrote about here, and it reminded me of my first woo-woo experience in which a huge hole opened up in the center of the body of a guy I was talking to. It was some sort of strange perceptual thing, but at the time it felt like I was seeing right through him and through the walls behind him. I had to concentrate really hard to keep his body intact and to close the hole. That scared me and I thought, "Holy cow, I could totally lose touch with reality if I'm not careful." Ha ha. This was going on for a period of three months - and it was with everyone I encountered. I have shared that experience over the years in a variety of online forums, so I can go back to old posts and confirm that I'm not unwittingly modifying the memory, as tends to happen with all memories over time. Like any woo-woo experience, that experience was incredibly impactful and unforgettable -- though unexplainable. If I had been meditating, at least I could have explained it that way, but I didn't even have that. The mind is apt to search for a cause, and this mind did so for years on end. Some suggested maybe I was seeing auras, so I looked into that, and no, it wasn't auras. It was only when I was typing out that long reply to you the other day, that it all clicked into place! There are a lot of experiences (big and little) I've had in my life that now make perfect sense in retrospect. Maybe that is another hallmark of a realization? Also, now that I go back and re-read certain teachings, they finally make total sense too. Like I said, Jesus' words now make total sense. I never encountered Niz before now, but he makes sense too. Anyway, I've been reading your posts on the blog and enjoying them very much. I see that you are 69 and had your realization in your 40s? I would love to hear more about how it unfolded immediately post-realization for you. I am kind of like a kid in the candy store at the moment, as this is all rather new for me. Like, for example, I'll find myself thinking, "but what do I DO with this realization?" Then I'll find myself chuckling, "there's nothing to do!" Mostly there's just this .... relief. Sounds like you're stumbling head first into precisely what sages warn about with unusual experiences.
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Aug 4, 2013 11:42:29 GMT -5
This was going on for a period of three months - and it was with everyone I encountered. I have shared that experience over the years in a variety of online forums, so I can go back to old posts and confirm that I'm not unwittingly modifying the memory, as tends to happen with all memories over time. Like any woo-woo experience, that experience was incredibly impactful and unforgettable -- though unexplainable. If I had been meditating, at least I could have explained it that way, but I didn't even have that. The mind is apt to search for a cause, and this mind did so for years on end. Some suggested maybe I was seeing auras, so I looked into that, and no, it wasn't auras. It was only when I was typing out that long reply to you the other day, that it all clicked into place! There are a lot of experiences (big and little) I've had in my life that now make perfect sense in retrospect. Maybe that is another hallmark of a realization? Also, now that I go back and re-read certain teachings, they finally make total sense too. Like I said, Jesus' words now make total sense. I never encountered Niz before now, but he makes sense too. Anyway, I've been reading your posts on the blog and enjoying them very much. I see that you are 69 and had your realization in your 40s? I would love to hear more about how it unfolded immediately post-realization for you. I am kind of like a kid in the candy store at the moment, as this is all rather new for me. Like, for example, I'll find myself thinking, "but what do I DO with this realization?" Then I'll find myself chuckling, "there's nothing to do!" Mostly there's just this .... relief. Sounds like you're stumbling head first into precisely what sages warn about with unusual experiences. That unusual experience happened 20 years ago. It's only now that it finally makes sense. It's only now that I can finally just let it go. When you had your realization, you didn't go through a period of time re-visiting old experiences with a fresh set of new eyes?
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 4, 2013 12:07:21 GMT -5
This was going on for a period of three months - and it was with everyone I encountered. I have shared that experience over the years in a variety of online forums, so I can go back to old posts and confirm that I'm not unwittingly modifying the memory, as tends to happen with all memories over time. Like any woo-woo experience, that experience was incredibly impactful and unforgettable -- though unexplainable. If I had been meditating, at least I could have explained it that way, but I didn't even have that. The mind is apt to search for a cause, and this mind did so for years on end. Some suggested maybe I was seeing auras, so I looked into that, and no, it wasn't auras. It was only when I was typing out that long reply to you the other day, that it all clicked into place! There are a lot of experiences (big and little) I've had in my life that now make perfect sense in retrospect. Maybe that is another hallmark of a realization? Also, now that I go back and re-read certain teachings, they finally make total sense too. Like I said, Jesus' words now make total sense. I never encountered Niz before now, but he makes sense too. Anyway, I've been reading your posts on the blog and enjoying them very much. I see that you are 69 and had your realization in your 40s? I would love to hear more about how it unfolded immediately post-realization for you. I am kind of like a kid in the candy store at the moment, as this is all rather new for me. Like, for example, I'll find myself thinking, "but what do I DO with this realization?" Then I'll find myself chuckling, "there's nothing to do!" Mostly there's just this .... relief. Sounds like you're stumbling head first into precisely what sages warn about with unusual experiences. I suspect that its more a case of mind becoming informed about what the body has realized. A common question that Zen Masters get asked after both woo-woo experiences and realizations is, "What do I do now?" The answer is often, "Go wash the dishes" (or anything else that needs to be done). Papaji's answer to this question was, "Wait and see."
|
|
|
Post by silence on Aug 4, 2013 12:14:56 GMT -5
That unusual experience happened 20 years ago. It's only now that it finally makes sense. It's only now that I can finally just let it go. The letting go is still in the future. A hypothetical situation. For now, you're a kid in a candy store. That's what I'm speaking to. When you had your realization, you didn't go through a period of time re-visiting old experiences with a fresh set of new eyes? No, If there was a point when I'd say "when I had my realization I did this and that", that too was just as much mind games as anything else.
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Aug 4, 2013 12:35:06 GMT -5
Sounds like you're stumbling head first into precisely what sages warn about with unusual experiences. I suspect that its more a case of mind becoming informed about what the body has realized. A common question that Zen Masters get asked after both woo-woo experiences and realizations is, "What do I do now?" The answer is often, "Go wash the dishes" (or anything else that needs to be done). Papaji's answer to this question was, "Wait and see." When there are "dishes to wash" it's fine and the mind is quite settled and content to not think much if at all. Life threw a lot of "dishes to wash" my way shortly after the retreat, so there wasn't much idle downtime -- it was one proverbial load of dirty dishes after another. However life is now at an ebb (surely temporary) and there just aren't that many dirty dishes being presented. I get the sense this is on purpose. It's like when a loved one dies. Life presents you with a bunch of details planning the funeral, settling estates, shaking hands, opening condolence letters, and writing thank you notes. It's done that way to allow time to deal with the shock. Then when the last thank you note is written, you are left with nothing but the quiet and the space to finally grieve. There may be denial and negotiations and bargaining. The grief is occasionally relived by flash backs of memories as you replay old stories. But you know they are just memories and there will be no new stories, because your loved one is dead and buried. All that's left is to figure out how to put one foot in front of the other, now that the familiar loved one is gone.
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Aug 4, 2013 12:37:38 GMT -5
That unusual experience happened 20 years ago. It's only now that it finally makes sense. It's only now that I can finally just let it go. The letting go is still in the future. A hypothetical situation. For now, you're a kid in a candy store. That's what I'm speaking to. When you had your realization, you didn't go through a period of time re-visiting old experiences with a fresh set of new eyes? No, If there was a point when I'd say "when I had my realization I did this and that", that too was just as much mind games as anything else. Hmmmmmm.... I see your point.
|
|
|
Post by silence on Aug 4, 2013 12:41:33 GMT -5
Sounds like you're stumbling head first into precisely what sages warn about with unusual experiences. I suspect that its more a case of mind becoming informed about what the body has realized. A common question that Zen Masters get asked after both woo-woo experiences and realizations is, "What do I do now?" The answer is often, "Go wash the dishes" (or anything else that needs to be done). Papaji's answer to this question was, "Wait and see." The question "What do I do now?" is a direct result of thought as a whole still being believed. Without meanings being ascribed to ones experiences, the question is completely nonsensical. In other words, unless you thought you were somehow special, you wouldn't even think of that question. Nor would you be asking anyone what to do. This is mind informing mind. Mind being informed just results in silence. End of story figuratively and literally.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 4, 2013 12:42:26 GMT -5
Re the Private Message function. I've often thought it would be preferable if PM's automatically triggered a bolder notification in a way that people unfamiliar with that function couldn't miss. I once sent a PM to someone on the forum, and he didn't notice the little checkmark for almost a year. By the time he responded I didn't even remember what I'd written to him about. One of these days I'll have to send a suggestion to ProBoards about this.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Aug 4, 2013 12:49:13 GMT -5
I suspect that its more a case of mind becoming informed about what the body has realized. A common question that Zen Masters get asked after both woo-woo experiences and realizations is, "What do I do now?" The answer is often, "Go wash the dishes" (or anything else that needs to be done). Papaji's answer to this question was, "Wait and see." The question "What do I do now?" is a direct result of thought as a whole still being believed. Without meanings being ascribed to ones experiences, the question is completely nonsensical. In other words, unless you thought you were somehow special, you wouldn't even think of that question. Nor would you be asking anyone what to do. This is mind informing mind. Mind being informed just results in silence. End of story figuratively and literally. No argument at all. I was simply pointing out that this is a common question. A typical Zen story has a monk asking a ZM about the ultimate truth of Buddhism. The ZM responds, "Have you finished your breakfast?" The monk replies that he has. The ZM says, "Then go wash your dishes." It is said that upon hearing these words the monk had a realization.
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Aug 4, 2013 14:03:37 GMT -5
I suspect that its more a case of mind becoming informed about what the body has realized. A common question that Zen Masters get asked after both woo-woo experiences and realizations is, "What do I do now?" The answer is often, "Go wash the dishes" (or anything else that needs to be done). Papaji's answer to this question was, "Wait and see." The question "What do I do now?" is a direct result of thought as a whole still being believed. Without meanings being ascribed to ones experiences, the question is completely nonsensical. In other words, unless you thought you were somehow special, you wouldn't even think of that question. Nor would you be asking anyone what to do. This is mind informing mind. Mind being informed just results in silence. End of story figuratively and literally. "What do I do now" was coming up for awhile, but met with "whatever presents itself next." "Wait and see" seems about right. If there's more to realize, there's no need to force it or chase after it or worry about it. It'll happen when it happens-- just as it "just happened" in the past.
|
|