|
|
Post by tzujanli on Jul 15, 2013 4:28:17 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Which is like saying, 'There's nothing that convince you you're not right'.. or, like saying, 'nothing matters except what you believe matters'.. Similarly, i can say, 'your theories are not accurate, oneness is an imagined belief, you just don't know it'.. The statements are equally valid.. Be well.. As an aside, your Knowledge appears to be PROFOUND (That's a Koan for you by the way  ) If there's no "I"/me, there's no koan.. knowledge can be fun, clarity IS profound.. Be well.. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 5:01:54 GMT -5
I've been spending a lot of time in Samadhi lately. The best I can describe the "experience", is that my Beingness, or ISness drops away, as does the sense of any kind of "doing" or practice, and all there is are phenomena with no awareness of an "experiencer". Recently I did a bit of study on the ideology of the lineage that produced the Dh?rana that I made such use of over the years, and in their ideology they described Samadhi as a kind of God Union....I don't have any opinions about that, but some interesting little questions arise as a kind of entertainment. In Samadhi the awareness of "doing" disappears, as does the experiencer, but experience remains, meaning phenomena like a visual field still occurs etc.. But I was thinking that this is not so different than when someone is absorbed in Mind movement in that, one's awareness of their own essential Beingness, or Awareness, which is the most essential aspect of self, is not there, only the Mind Movement is there with no awareness of participating in Mind Movement. A person that is absorbed in and abiding in Mind movement is not Aware of their own essential Awareness, nor are they aware they they are engaged in Mind movement, because they are so totally absorbed in the Mind movement or experience. So in Samadhi, both "Doing" and Experiencer, or sense of self disappear, and in a Mind movement centered person that is completely absorbed in their own mentation and experience, awareness of thinking or "doing" disappears, as does awareness of one's most essential nature. Is a person that is completely absorbed in Mind movement nothing more than the experience that occurs in God's Samadhi?
Said another way, is God in Samadhi, and we are the experience that occurs in God's Samadhi?
And if this is so, when we are undone into Samadhi, does that mean that we are either in a kind of God Union, or at least "aligned" with the nature of God?Interesting... I don't know about the italicized bit, but before that resonated with me. Its almost like.....lost, found, lost. Could even be the other way...found, lost, found. Yeah, but all at once, like an Oreo Cookie....not in a time linear way Do they have Oreo's in the UK? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 5:02:43 GMT -5
Greetings.. As an aside, your Knowledge appears to be PROFOUND (That's a Koan for you by the way ) If there's no "I"/me, there's no koan.. knowledge can be fun, clarity IS profound.. Be well.. Where is Clarity profound? |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jul 15, 2013 5:18:12 GMT -5
I don't know about the italicized bit, but before that resonated with me. Its almost like.....lost, found, lost. Could even be the other way...found, lost, found. Yeah, but all at once, like an Oreo Cookie....not in a time linear way Do they have Oreo's in the UK? Yep. They are not as popular here as in the US I don't think, but my wife is American so there is often a packet in our cupboard. My Mother in Law has just been for a visit and brought me some Dunkin' Donuts coffee. Its good stuff. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jul 15, 2013 9:17:41 GMT -5
I'm interested in hearing your take on this Zendancer :-) Hi Steve: As I noted on another thread, there are two kinds of samadhi. In absolute samadhi body and mind drop away and there is pure awareness with no content, time, space, or selfhood. In relative samadhi there is no time, space, or selfhood, but the world is seen and interacted with directly. Relative samadhi is sometimes called "flow" or "being in the zone." In either case, the mind does not reflect upon what is happening. In absolute samadhi the mind is totally absent(if one or two thoughts arise, absolute samadhi begins to dissipate). In absolute samadhi awareness is present but empty of everything. There is no thinking ABOUT awareness in either type of samadhi. Samadhi is simply an experience. Whether or not its function is understood (more about that in an upcoming thread), is not particularly important, but it is wise to let it go, and not attribute any special significance to it. It is the same with all experiences and mindstates, from the most subline (or mind-boggling) to the most ordinary. This last weekend I found a book, "Questions to a Zen Master," that I had read twenty-five years ago. I had forgotten some of the information in the book, and reading it anew was interesting because ZM Taisen Deshimaru explains from his POV some of the issues that I was planning to discuss in the future. I'll start a new thread today or tomorrow and review some of the points he makes and how they apply to meditation, samadhi, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by Beingist on Jul 15, 2013 10:21:11 GMT -5
I'm interested in hearing your take on this Zendancer :-) Hi Steve: As I noted on another thread, there are two kinds of samadhi. In absolute samadhi body and mind drop away and there is pure awareness with no content, time, space, or selfhood. In relative samadhi there is no time, space, or selfhood, but the world is seen and interacted with directly. Relative samadhi is sometimes called "flow" or "being in the zone." In either case, the mind does not reflect upon what is happening. In absolute samadhi the mind is totally absent(if one or two thoughts arise, absolute samadhi begins to dissipate) and awareness is present but empty of everything. There is no thinking ABOUT awareness in either type of samadhi. How very similar to Niz's Brahman and Atman (I think) stuff, where Atman (I think) = 'relative samadhi', and Brahman = 'absolute samadhi'. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 11:02:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. As an aside, your Knowledge appears to be PROFOUND (That's a Koan for you by the way ) If there's no "I"/me, there's no koan.. knowledge can be fun, clarity IS profound.. Be well.. I'm experiencing the thought that If tzu's clarity IS so profound, why doesn't he 'experience' 'Not Two' (Oneness)?... And the experience of that thought is 'Not Two' things being experienced. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 12:27:15 GMT -5
I'm interested in hearing your take on this Zendancer :-) Hi Steve: As I noted on another thread, there are two kinds of samadhi. In absolute samadhi body and mind drop away and there is pure awareness with no content, time, space, or selfhood. In relative samadhi there is no time, space, or selfhood, but the world is seen and interacted with directly. Relative samadhi is sometimes called "flow" or "being in the zone." In either case, the mind does not reflect upon what is happening. In absolute samadhi the mind is totally absent(if one or two thoughts arise, absolute samadhi begins to dissipate) and awareness is present but empty of everything. There is no thinking ABOUT awareness in either type of samadhi. Samadhi is simply an experience. Whether or not its function is understood (more about that in an upcoming thread), is not particularly important, but it is wise to let it go, and not attribute any special significance to it. It is the same with all experiences and mindstates, from the most subline (or mind-boggling) to the most ordinary. This last weekend I found a book, "Questions to a Zen Master," that I had read about twenty-five years ago. I had forgotten some of the information in the book, and reading it anew was interesting because ZM Taisen Deshimaru explains from his POV some of the issues that I was planning to discuss in the future. I'll start a new thread today or tomorrow and review some of the points he makes and how they apply to meditation, samadhi, etc. Hey thanks ZD, I look forward to the thread :-) Samadhi is one of those "states" that cannot be "reached" if there is ANY type of effort or attachment occurring, so placing any special significance to it seems counterproductive, especial in light of that Samadhi seems to be the natural always occurring "state" of the Universe. One thing on "flow" versus relative Samadhi though. When I was younger I was a bit of an athlete, and did a lot of combat sports, boxing, muy Thai, Tae Kwon Do etc....and now', in my "adblvanced" years lol, I go to the race track and race a Corvette on a road course a couple times a month....when you are "in" a fight, or "in" a series of S Curves at 100 + miles an hour with the car dancing at the limits of tire grip, there is this Flow state that is exactly as you describe, but it has a different quality than my experience of relative Samadhi. In Flow, there seems to be awareness of self but absent of thoughts occurring, and "Doing" is not "being done", in relative Samadhi, phenomena are still occurring, but there is no Beingness, or I Amness there, even when the phenomena of Mind movement searches for it. Dunno, it's all just words really, not that important I guess. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Jul 15, 2013 12:29:45 GMT -5
Hi Steve: As I noted on another thread, there are two kinds of samadhi. In absolute samadhi body and mind drop away and there is pure awareness with no content, time, space, or selfhood. In relative samadhi there is no time, space, or selfhood, but the world is seen and interacted with directly. Relative samadhi is sometimes called "flow" or "being in the zone." In either case, the mind does not reflect upon what is happening. In absolute samadhi the mind is totally absent(if one or two thoughts arise, absolute samadhi begins to dissipate) and awareness is present but empty of everything. There is no thinking ABOUT awareness in either type of samadhi. Samadhi is simply an experience. Whether or not its function is understood (more about that in an upcoming thread), is not particularly important, but it is wise to let it go, and not attribute any special significance to it. It is the same with all experiences and mindstates, from the most subline (or mind-boggling) to the most ordinary. This last weekend I found a book, "Questions to a Zen Master," that I had read about twenty-five years ago. I had forgotten some of the information in the book, and reading it anew was interesting because ZM Taisen Deshimaru explains from his POV some of the issues that I was planning to discuss in the future. I'll start a new thread today or tomorrow and review some of the points he makes and how they apply to meditation, samadhi, etc. Hey thanks ZD, I look forward to the thread :-) Samadhi is one of those "states" that cannot be "reached" if there is ANY type of effort or attachment occurring, so placing any special significance to it seems counterproductive, especial in light of that Samadhi seems to be the natural always occurring "state" of the Universe. One thing on "flow" versus relative Samadhi though. When I was younger I was a bit of an athlete, and did a lot of combat sports, boxing, muy Thai, Tae Kwon Do etc....and now', in my "adblvanced" years lol, I go to the race track and race a Corvette on a road course a couple times a month....when you are "in" a fight, or "in" a series of S Curves at 100 + miles an hour with the car dancing at the limits of tire grip, there is this Flow state that is exactly as you describe, but it has a different quality than my experience of relative Samadhi. In Flow, there seems to be awareness of self but absent of thoughts occurring, and "Doing" is not "being done", in relative Samadhi, phenomena are still occurring, but there is no Beingness, or I Amness there, even when the phenomena of Mind movement searches for it. Dunno, it's all just words really, not that important I guess. It may not be 'important' - but there is a certain flow to your words through the sharing of you personal experience. cool. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jul 15, 2013 13:11:27 GMT -5
Hi Steve: As I noted on another thread, there are two kinds of samadhi. In absolute samadhi body and mind drop away and there is pure awareness with no content, time, space, or selfhood. In relative samadhi there is no time, space, or selfhood, but the world is seen and interacted with directly. Relative samadhi is sometimes called "flow" or "being in the zone." In either case, the mind does not reflect upon what is happening. In absolute samadhi the mind is totally absent(if one or two thoughts arise, absolute samadhi begins to dissipate) and awareness is present but empty of everything. There is no thinking ABOUT awareness in either type of samadhi. Samadhi is simply an experience. Whether or not its function is understood (more about that in an upcoming thread), is not particularly important, but it is wise to let it go, and not attribute any special significance to it. It is the same with all experiences and mindstates, from the most subline (or mind-boggling) to the most ordinary. This last weekend I found a book, "Questions to a Zen Master," that I had read about twenty-five years ago. I had forgotten some of the information in the book, and reading it anew was interesting because ZM Taisen Deshimaru explains from his POV some of the issues that I was planning to discuss in the future. I'll start a new thread today or tomorrow and review some of the points he makes and how they apply to meditation, samadhi, etc. Hey thanks ZD, I look forward to the thread :-) Samadhi is one of those "states" that cannot be "reached" if there is ANY type of effort or attachment occurring, so placing any special significance to it seems counterproductive, especial in light of that Samadhi seems to be the natural always occurring "state" of the Universe. One thing on "flow" versus relative Samadhi though. When I was younger I was a bit of an athlete, and did a lot of combat sports, boxing, muy Thai, Tae Kwon Do etc....and now', in my "adblvanced" years lol, I go to the race track and race a Corvette on a road course a couple times a month....when you are "in" a fight, or "in" a series of S Curves at 100 + miles an hour with the car dancing at the limits of tire grip, there is this Flow state that is exactly as you describe, but it has a different quality than my experience of relative Samadhi. In Flow, there seems to be awareness of self but absent of thoughts occurring, and "Doing" is not "being done", in relative Samadhi, phenomena are still occurring, but there is no Beingness, or I Amness there, even when the phenomena of Mind movement searches for it. Dunno, it's all just words really, not that important I guess. Yes, all forms of samadhi, flow, in the zone, etc. come about through intense concentration. I played a game of tennis once in which I focused so strongly on the ball that time, space, and "I" disappeared. The body seemed to know where the ball was going to be hit before my opponent even hit it. Only afterwards did I realize that something extraordinary had happened. In the movie "The Hustler" Paul Newman tries to explain to his girlfriend what it is like to be "on" in a game of pool. Same same. This is what Zen Masters call "mushin"--a kind of body connectedness with the cosmos that does not involve thought. I, too, used to road race Porsches and Corvettes, but even at 100 miles an hour in a 4-wheel drift total absorption may or may not be present. If total absorption occurs, the mind disappears and the body connects to the cosmos in a way that allows the impossible to become possible. It is beyond the scope of the scientific paradigm. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 13:25:44 GMT -5
Hey thanks ZD, I look forward to the thread :-) Samadhi is one of those "states" that cannot be "reached" if there is ANY type of effort or attachment occurring, so placing any special significance to it seems counterproductive, especial in light of that Samadhi seems to be the natural always occurring "state" of the Universe. One thing on "flow" versus relative Samadhi though. When I was younger I was a bit of an athlete, and did a lot of combat sports, boxing, muy Thai, Tae Kwon Do etc....and now', in my "adblvanced" years lol, I go to the race track and race a Corvette on a road course a couple times a month....when you are "in" a fight, or "in" a series of S Curves at 100 + miles an hour with the car dancing at the limits of tire grip, there is this Flow state that is exactly as you describe, but it has a different quality than my experience of relative Samadhi. In Flow, there seems to be awareness of self but absent of thoughts occurring, and "Doing" is not "being done", in relative Samadhi, phenomena are still occurring, but there is no Beingness, or I Amness there, even when the phenomena of Mind movement searches for it. Dunno, it's all just words really, not that important I guess. Yes, all forms of samadhi, flow, in the zone, etc. come about through intense concentration. I played a game of tennis once in which I focused so strongly on the ball that time, space, and "I" disappeared. The body seemed to know where the ball was going to be hit before my opponent even hit it. Only afterwards did I realize that something extraordinary had happened. In the movie "The Hustler" Paul Newman tries to explain to his girlfriend what it is like to be "on" in a game of pool. Same same. This is what Zen Masters call "mushin"--a kind of body connectedness with the cosmos that does not involve thought. I, too, used to road race Porsches and Corvettes, but even at 100 miles an hour in a 4-wheel drift total absorption may or may not be present. If total absorption occurs, the mind disappears and the body connects to the cosmos in a way that allows the impossible to become possible. It is beyond the scope of the scientific paradigm. Haha, yeah, at the track it seems like when I am on the right line Flow occurs, but when I'm off line Oh S**t! Occurs lol But yeah, it's as if the whole universe slows down and you can "see" everything that is happening and about to happen and you've got all day to respond to it, and when you do "respond", it just happens the right way. Those Formula 1 drivers are literally "super human", Science still cannot figure out how they make all this micro adjustments in a corner at 150 miles per hour faster than the human body can even send a signal from the body to the brain and back to the body....they are faster than electricity lol |
|
|
|
Post by silence on Jul 15, 2013 17:11:02 GMT -5
Hey, far be it for me to tell anyone not to be a philosophy professor. I'm just having a little fun. Me too. Was that GC as in George Carlin? Yea. Here's another good one relevant to this forum: “I wanna live. I don’t wanna die. That’s the whole meaning of life: Not dying! I figured that $hit out by myself in the third grade” |
|
|
|
Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 15, 2013 17:40:53 GMT -5
Yes, all forms of samadhi, flow, in the zone, etc. come about through intense concentration. I played a game of tennis once in which I focused so strongly on the ball that time, space, and "I" disappeared. The body seemed to know where the ball was going to be hit before my opponent even hit it. Only afterwards did I realize that something extraordinary had happened. In the movie "The Hustler" Paul Newman tries to explain to his girlfriend what it is like to be "on" in a game of pool. Same same. This is what Zen Masters call "mushin"--a kind of body connectedness with the cosmos that does not involve thought. I, too, used to road race Porsches and Corvettes, but even at 100 miles an hour in a 4-wheel drift total absorption may or may not be present. If total absorption occurs, the mind disappears and the body connects to the cosmos in a way that allows the impossible to become possible. It is beyond the scope of the scientific paradigm. Sorry to burst your bubble, but a well built and programmed robot would perform all those tasks better than any human. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Jul 15, 2013 17:47:18 GMT -5
Yes, all forms of samadhi, flow, in the zone, etc. come about through intense concentration. I played a game of tennis once in which I focused so strongly on the ball that time, space, and "I" disappeared. The body seemed to know where the ball was going to be hit before my opponent even hit it. Only afterwards did I realize that something extraordinary had happened. In the movie "The Hustler" Paul Newman tries to explain to his girlfriend what it is like to be "on" in a game of pool. Same same. This is what Zen Masters call "mushin"--a kind of body connectedness with the cosmos that does not involve thought. I, too, used to road race Porsches and Corvettes, but even at 100 miles an hour in a 4-wheel drift total absorption may or may not be present. If total absorption occurs, the mind disappears and the body connects to the cosmos in a way that allows the impossible to become possible. It is beyond the scope of the scientific paradigm. Sorry to burst your bubble, but a well built and programmed robot would perform all those tasks better than any human. I seriously doubt you're bursting anybody's bubbles.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 19:58:30 GMT -5
Yes, all forms of samadhi, flow, in the zone, etc. come about through intense concentration. I played a game of tennis once in which I focused so strongly on the ball that time, space, and "I" disappeared. The body seemed to know where the ball was going to be hit before my opponent even hit it. Only afterwards did I realize that something extraordinary had happened. In the movie "The Hustler" Paul Newman tries to explain to his girlfriend what it is like to be "on" in a game of pool. Same same. This is what Zen Masters call "mushin"--a kind of body connectedness with the cosmos that does not involve thought. I, too, used to road race Porsches and Corvettes, but even at 100 miles an hour in a 4-wheel drift total absorption may or may not be present. If total absorption occurs, the mind disappears and the body connects to the cosmos in a way that allows the impossible to become possible. It is beyond the scope of the scientific paradigm. Sorry to burst your bubble, but a well built and programmed robot would perform all those tasks better than any human. Your kind of cute with your weird strawman pokes at ZD lol ZD was not saying that "impossible" as he used it means impossible in every scenario, but rather "impossible" for the human body/mind as science currently understands them. So yes, a well designed robot can do things that are viewed as impossible for the human body/mind, but this has nothing to do with saying that the human body/mind is capable of doing things that are considered to be impossible for IT to do. Are you so focused on poking at a friendly 69 year old man that you should be showing courtesy and respect to that you are missing what he is actually saying? |
|
Greetings..
)
