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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 7, 2013 10:10:29 GMT -5
I suppose I will jump right in...
Do you see a difference between seeking vs integrating? Define these terms in whatever way you wish.
Recently I realized I am done seeking. I am not sure when this happened, or how, or why, although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish. All I know is that I am DONE. Something has shifted. It's a subtle something, and a nothing at all. I am still putting forks in the doneness from time to time, just in case, but the fork keeps coming out clean - done.
It's pretty cool; now when I read things I've read a million times before, they make sense!
I figured I am on to "integrating" what I have found, and figured that is a process and it may take some time. I was figuring at least it is not a process that is akin to being on an endless hamster wheel. I was rolling with that idea, that integration is different than seeking, that maybe there's yet another state of done-ness that could be found. Until yesterday I had another moment in which I realized... gosh darn it... it will NEVER be integrated! Because integration of the infinite is impossible.
This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else?
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Post by laughter on Jul 7, 2013 10:16:44 GMT -5
I suppose I will jump right in... Do you see a difference between seeking vs integrating? Define these terms in whatever way you wish. Recently I realized I am done seeking. I am not sure when this happened, or how, or why, although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish. All I know is that I am DONE. Something has shifted. It's a subtle something, and a nothing at all. I am still putting forks in the doneness from time to time, just in case, but the fork keeps coming out clean - done. It's pretty cool; now when I read things I've read a million times before, they make sense! I figured I am on to "integrating" what I have found, and figured that is a process and it may take some time. I was figuring at least it is not a process that is akin to being on an endless hamster wheel. I was rolling with that idea, that integration is different than seeking, that maybe there's yet another state of done-ness that could be found. Until yesterday I had another moment in which I realized... gosh darn it... it will NEVER be integrated! Because integration of the infinite is impossible. This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else? So there was a time, until recently, when you sincerely considered yourself a seeker? By this I mean, at the time, did you self-identify as such?
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Post by topology on Jul 7, 2013 10:33:04 GMT -5
By integration I am assuming you are talking about integrating an understanding into behavior and relationship. Integration is not something that can be done, it happens or doesn't. When you see clearly and an understanding penetrates deeply into the mind and psyche, behavior and relationship will shift automatically. The only thing that can be done proactively is practicing the art of seeing clearly, but even that is mostly becoming aware of what skews our vision.
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Post by amit on Jul 9, 2013 23:33:29 GMT -5
I suppose I will jump right in... Do you see a difference between seeking vs integrating? Define these terms in whatever way you wish. Recently I realized I am done seeking. I am not sure when this happened, or how, or why, although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish. All I know is that I am DONE. Something has shifted. It's a subtle something, and a nothing at all. I am still putting forks in the doneness from time to time, just in case, but the fork keeps coming out clean - done. It's pretty cool; now when I read things I've read a million times before, they make sense! I figured I am on to "integrating" what I have found, and figured that is a process and it may take some time. I was figuring at least it is not a process that is akin to being on an endless hamster wheel. I was rolling with that idea, that integration is different than seeking, that maybe there's yet another state of done-ness that could be found. Until yesterday I had another moment in which I realized... gosh darn it... it will NEVER be integrated! Because integration of the infinite is impossible. This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else? Hi Serpentqueen, Thanks. "... although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish" What was seen and was there anything in particular which lead to the seeing? amit
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sound
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Post by sound on Jul 10, 2013 7:16:24 GMT -5
Hi SQ I haven't really thought about the difference before now, but ... seeking seems to be about looking for something one believes is 'needed/something one believes hasn't been got lol ... whereas integrating seems to be more about incorporating what one has found/experienced/discovered with what is already known ... integrating seems to be more about trying to slot what is 'realized' into a current belief system ... it might mean something completely different to me when i read it back again tomorrow lol ... * nice to read your 'stuff' on the boards here ... I have been a member for a while but am still assessing the risk associated with swimming among the sharks haha ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 7:40:46 GMT -5
There's a caution that Rick Archer throws out from time to time that I appreciate. It goes "Don't mistake understanding for realization. And don't mistake realization for liberation."
How I understand it, is that there is some shift that happens (realization) where the Seeker is seen to have been an illusion. The seeking as an activity may continue though. Then there is also a realization that what you are is no different than everything else (or something!). And all this is super mind-blowing and can manifest in relationships and career and such in subtle or egregious ways. That part of seeing how it all unfolds is actually just the natural integration part. Relaxing or accepting one's place back in the marketplace, so to speak, is the liberation part.
There is a disconnect created by a belief in separation from the Whole. That naturally creates seeking. It's the mountains are mountains, rivers are rivers life. You are the seeker.
Then there is this phase change where you being separate from mountains and rivers is seen as a fiction. Emptiness is form, form is emptiness. There is no you, there is no mountain, no river. Pretty mind blowing. But the activity of seeking may continue. Afterall, WTF? mountains aren't mountains? So books are read and satsangs are listened to and on and on. How have folks articulated this in the past?? All the while integration is happening.
Then there is some sort of shift that happens where, while it's true that there are essentially no mountains, no rivers, and no you, there are. We walk and work and relate in the world, just absent the illusion of ultimate separation. Integration is just resting.
ZD has talked about this regarding the 10 0xherding pics too.
Just throwing some ideas out there.
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Post by quinn on Jul 10, 2013 8:07:32 GMT -5
This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else? Yeah, this makes sense to me. In general, it can seem the intense focus on seeking kind of dissolves itself. But I wouldn't divide it that sharply. There's integration in seeking and there's seeking in integration. To me, it's more like opening up a fist. At first there's this tight grip on the self and seeking and questions, etc. Then it begins to loosen up as understandings dawn. The opening up, itself, doesn't seem to be a 'doing' - it just happens. But the impetus for Truth (I think you mentioned that in another thread) is still in place. For me, anyway. There is just less of a 'me' doing the seeking. Adya talks about becoming "Grace prone". There's a point where we let go of the control part of seeking and open up to Grace. You could call it integration, too.
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Post by Beingist on Jul 10, 2013 8:53:35 GMT -5
This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else? Yeah, this makes sense to me. In general, it can seem the intense focus on seeking kind of dissolves itself. But I wouldn't divide it that sharply. There's integration in seeking and there's seeking in integration. To me, it's more like opening up a fist. At first there's this tight grip on the self and seeking and questions, etc. Then it begins to loosen up as understandings dawn. The opening up, itself, doesn't seem to be a 'doing' - it just happens. But the impetus for Truth (I think you mentioned that in another thread) is still in place. For me, anyway. There is just less of a 'me' doing the seeking. Adya talks about becoming "Grace prone". There's a point where we let go of the control part of seeking and open up to Grace. You could call it integration, too. Currently reading Falling into Grace. I can rez.
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Post by quinn on Jul 10, 2013 9:01:04 GMT -5
Yeah, this makes sense to me. In general, it can seem the intense focus on seeking kind of dissolves itself. But I wouldn't divide it that sharply. There's integration in seeking and there's seeking in integration. To me, it's more like opening up a fist. At first there's this tight grip on the self and seeking and questions, etc. Then it begins to loosen up as understandings dawn. The opening up, itself, doesn't seem to be a 'doing' - it just happens. But the impetus for Truth (I think you mentioned that in another thread) is still in place. For me, anyway. There is just less of a 'me' doing the seeking. Adya talks about becoming "Grace prone". There's a point where we let go of the control part of seeking and open up to Grace. You could call it integration, too. Currently reading Falling into Grace. I can rez. **twilight zone music*** Just grabbed that off my shelf yesterday to take with me in case I had a few spare minutes. Which I didn't, but that's another story (hehe).
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 10, 2013 10:27:00 GMT -5
I suppose I will jump right in... Do you see a difference between seeking vs integrating? Define these terms in whatever way you wish. Recently I realized I am done seeking. I am not sure when this happened, or how, or why, although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish. All I know is that I am DONE. Something has shifted. It's a subtle something, and a nothing at all. I am still putting forks in the doneness from time to time, just in case, but the fork keeps coming out clean - done. It's pretty cool; now when I read things I've read a million times before, they make sense! I figured I am on to "integrating" what I have found, and figured that is a process and it may take some time. I was figuring at least it is not a process that is akin to being on an endless hamster wheel. I was rolling with that idea, that integration is different than seeking, that maybe there's yet another state of done-ness that could be found. Until yesterday I had another moment in which I realized... gosh darn it... it will NEVER be integrated! Because integration of the infinite is impossible. This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else? Hi Serpentqueen, Thanks. "... although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish" What was seen and was there anything in particular which lead to the seeing? amit I'm still figuring out how to express it in words. I'd say I am probably smoking the same stuff as Andrew, as a lot (not all) of his posts hit the mark for me. What lead to it.. I don't know how far back you want me to go with the story, I could spin a long one. But I've never really practiced or followed any one particular thing (at least, not for long). At periods in my life I would find myself interested in spiritual/philosophical/metaphysical information, study up, but mostly on a surface level, and it's been on and off. I also study a lot of science stuff too. I've had long stretches where I had zero such interest and I would just "be" in the here and now and not ponder any of it. About 5 years ago, I found myself leaving such a period and entering an intense seeking mode. And eventually I felt like I was on one long never ending hamster wheel. There have been tons of influences along the way, they all played a role, but most recently, a couple of things caused a shift. One was going to an Unmani retreat. It's the first retreat I ever went to. I'd read her books and watched her videos for awhile, and kept coming back to them. I can't really put into words what happened at that retreat. Something shifted -- and it lasted for about two months. But as Unmani cautioned, it would come and go, so when it "went" again, I was prepared for that. The next thing I did was read McKenna's Theory of Everything (a friend recommended it) and I did like that book. A lot of it (not all) resonates for me. I found it tied nicely into the Unmani experience. There's also another influence that ties into it all, which is sorta hard to explain, as it's not anyone who is hawking a book or retreats or even a theory or practice. This influence put together a lot of the pieces too. What happened next was a period in which a whole bunch of intense stuff was going on in my personal life -- it's personal so I won't get into that. I will say unrelated events affected every significant relationship in my life. I was thoroughly distracted and overwhelmed by it all. Then one by one, this bunch of personal stuff just clicked all into place for me. What might have taken me years in therapy, all just suddenly made sense, was seen, and resolved. It is like everything that had preoccupied me for years, was suddenly just.. gone. While all that was going on, "it" would come and go, it's so subtle. Now that "decks are cleared" it's coming more often but one cannot say for how long it will stay, or what makes it come when it does -- I can be with other people, I can be completely alone. Something just shifts, and it all makes sense. I think others in this forum, from what I can tell, know what I mean, and that is totally cool. I'm glad Top re-sent me the link to this forum. I'd caution that anything I might write may come across inconsistent, because it depends on which "mode" I am in. That's another part I'm trying to figure out. There seems to be different "spaces" and I am flipping between them. That is partly what I meant about integration. I do see this is nothing I can force - it just happens, and on it's own schedule. I hope that wasn't too long-winded for you. I could get more long-winded, if you want the longer version. Heh! But stories are just stories.
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 10, 2013 10:31:57 GMT -5
I have to get offline now, but quickly I just want to add, regarding stories: I have come to see that something happens, and that the mind then creates a story around it, to explain it. It may stitch all sorts of things together, to tell the story. Which is what I just did for you. But all of that is probably just a story; what happened may have had nothing at all to do with any of those influences I just described. Maybe the shift just happened, and my mind then searched for an explanation as to why and how.
Someone used the word grace - I do like that description a lot (minus the religious connotations).
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Post by topology on Jul 10, 2013 13:10:33 GMT -5
Hi SQ I haven't really thought about the difference before now, but ... seeking seems to be about looking for something one believes is 'needed/something one believes hasn't been got lol ... whereas integrating seems to be more about incorporating what one has found/experienced/discovered with what is already known ... integrating seems to be more about trying to slot what is 'realized' into a current belief system ... it might mean something completely different to me when i read it back again tomorrow lol ... * nice to read your 'stuff' on the boards here ... I have been a member for a while but am still assessing the risk associated with swimming among the sharks haha ... This is what is really happening: But the mind makes it out to feel like this:
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crystalsong
New Member
It's Wonderland I tell you....Wonderland!
Posts: 15
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Post by crystalsong on Jul 10, 2013 16:31:33 GMT -5
I suppose I will jump right in... Do you see a difference between seeking vs integrating? Define these terms in whatever way you wish. Recently I realized I am done seeking. I am not sure when this happened, or how, or why, although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish. All I know is that I am DONE. Something has shifted. It's a subtle something, and a nothing at all. I am still putting forks in the doneness from time to time, just in case, but the fork keeps coming out clean - done. It's pretty cool; now when I read things I've read a million times before, they make sense! I figured I am on to "integrating" what I have found, and figured that is a process and it may take some time. I was figuring at least it is not a process that is akin to being on an endless hamster wheel. I was rolling with that idea, that integration is different than seeking, that maybe there's yet another state of done-ness that could be found. Until yesterday I had another moment in which I realized... gosh darn it... it will NEVER be integrated! Because integration of the infinite is impossible. This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else? Hi *wave* It does make sense to me, something similar is occurring, after some mind boggling unexplainable months, I went seeking answers to how all of that could be so and most of what was formerly considered 'the only reality' had gotten so thoroughly trampled by experience otherwise. That was the seeking part. Answers - puzzle pieces really, started filtering in from many sectors and got doubled down by actual experience, now it's all slowed down and there seems to be this integration phase, the pots simmering on the stove, all the spices aren't blended yet..... TO misquoute probably Lao Tzu Before awakening a tree is a tree, a river is a river. after awakening a tree is not a tree, a river is not a river, then a tree is a tree and a river is a river. So now a tree is a tree and also more and a river is a river and also more....and we are the tree and river both...somehow after more simmering time this will all make sense and we'll know what to do with the knowledge, or not. Is there even anything to be done with it? As I often remark to a friend, awesome, now I'm super human, what do I do with it? Or is there even anything to be done with it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 16:45:19 GMT -5
I suppose I will jump right in... Do you see a difference between seeking vs integrating? Define these terms in whatever way you wish. Recently I realized I am done seeking. I am not sure when this happened, or how, or why, although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish. All I know is that I am DONE. Something has shifted. It's a subtle something, and a nothing at all. I am still putting forks in the doneness from time to time, just in case, but the fork keeps coming out clean - done. It's pretty cool; now when I read things I've read a million times before, they make sense! I figured I am on to "integrating" what I have found, and figured that is a process and it may take some time. I was figuring at least it is not a process that is akin to being on an endless hamster wheel. I was rolling with that idea, that integration is different than seeking, that maybe there's yet another state of done-ness that could be found. Until yesterday I had another moment in which I realized... gosh darn it... it will NEVER be integrated! Because integration of the infinite is impossible. This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else? Hi *wave* It does make sense to me, something similar is occurring, after some mind boggling unexplainable months, I went seeking answers to how all of that could be so and most of what was formerly considered 'the only reality' had gotten so thoroughly trampled by experience otherwise. That was the seeking part. Answers - puzzle pieces really, started filtering in from many sectors and got doubled down by actual experience, now it's all slowed down and there seems to be this integration phase, the pots simmering on the stove, all the spices aren't blended yet..... TO misquoute probably Lao Tzu Before awakening a tree is a tree, a river is a river. after awakening a tree is not a tree, a river is not a river, then a tree is a tree and a river is a river. So now a tree is a tree and also more and a river is a river and also more....and we are the tree and river both...somehow after more simmering time this will all make sense and we'll know what to do with the knowledge, or not. Is there even anything to be done with it? As I often remark to a friend, awesome, now I'm super human, what do I do with it? Or is there even anything to be done with it? not really, whether its a phenomena that apoears "supernatural" or not, its all Mind ;-) over a 20 year period of intense exploration I had many "supernatural" woo woo experience, too many to list, but in every case, it always felt like a side joyrney that was a distraction from getting to the essence of things. so while it was really fun become one with birds and seeing what it was like to swoop up into a tree in high speed flight from the birds eyes (they have an interesting visual field with those wide set eyes ;-)), it was all still a kind of dwelling in Mind centeredness. the Mind is vast and all containing, with practice its amazing what kind of seemingly "supernatural" access you can gain to its various aspects, but in then end, absorption in either common, or seemingly "supernatural" Mind experience is still all being Mind centered....even though that "playground/prison" is MUCH vaster and more diverse than most folks experience.
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 10, 2013 17:10:23 GMT -5
I suppose I will jump right in... Do you see a difference between seeking vs integrating? Define these terms in whatever way you wish. Recently I realized I am done seeking. I am not sure when this happened, or how, or why, although I could point to a few experiences that helped along the way, and wrap it all in a story if you wish. All I know is that I am DONE. Something has shifted. It's a subtle something, and a nothing at all. I am still putting forks in the doneness from time to time, just in case, but the fork keeps coming out clean - done. It's pretty cool; now when I read things I've read a million times before, they make sense! I figured I am on to "integrating" what I have found, and figured that is a process and it may take some time. I was figuring at least it is not a process that is akin to being on an endless hamster wheel. I was rolling with that idea, that integration is different than seeking, that maybe there's yet another state of done-ness that could be found. Until yesterday I had another moment in which I realized... gosh darn it... it will NEVER be integrated! Because integration of the infinite is impossible. This may seem completely obvious to many of you, but that is where I am at. Does this make sense to anyone else? Hi *wave* It does make sense to me, something similar is occurring, after some mind boggling unexplainable months, I went seeking answers to how all of that could be so and most of what was formerly considered 'the only reality' had gotten so thoroughly trampled by experience otherwise. That was the seeking part. Answers - puzzle pieces really, started filtering in from many sectors and got doubled down by actual experience, now it's all slowed down and there seems to be this integration phase, the pots simmering on the stove, all the spices aren't blended yet..... TO misquoute probably Lao Tzu Before awakening a tree is a tree, a river is a river. after awakening a tree is not a tree, a river is not a river, then a tree is a tree and a river is a river. So now a tree is a tree and also more and a river is a river and also more....and we are the tree and river both...somehow after more simmering time this will all make sense and we'll know what to do with the knowledge, or not. Is there even anything to be done with it? As I often remark to a friend, awesome, now I'm super human, what do I do with it? Or is there even anything to be done with it? I would say This part was the seeking ---> Before awakening a tree is a tree, a river is a river. This part was the DONE moment --- > after awakening a tree is not a tree, a river is not a river, This part is the integration --- > then a tree is a tree and a river is a river. ... and that last part goes on endlessly. The sense is there's never going to be another "done" moment.. but, who knows? It's like putting on a new pair of glasses and seeing everything differently. You could lock me up in a tiny prison cell for the rest of my life, and the seeing would still go on endlessly. Because, infinity. But, I don't get the impression there's anything to "do" with "it," nor do I feel super human in any way shape or form. Which is actually a huge relief, as that was one of my big hangups for a long, long time. Note, I am calling this a shift -- and a subtle one at that, not an "awakening." It was not the same as what happened to me over 15 years ago, that was much more of a woo-woo experience.
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