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Post by Reefs on Jul 6, 2013 9:49:06 GMT -5
Bump....these are not BIG or difficult philosophical questions to explore, they are simple to explore with just a small amount of investigative effort. Why is it that no one has any interest in exploring these lol Are the ramifications something to be scared of, or to be avoided lol? There's a pattern here I see repeated often. Mind will attempt to save itself by absorbing it's enemy, and it can be quite effective. That is, it will classify all knowledge, insight, realization, 'truth' as irrelevant mind noise, and declare itself done. It can claim it knows nothing while secretly holding tightly to all manner of knowledge. (See Andrewism for details) It will declare nothing is true or false, thereby relieving itself of the burden of discrimination, and freeing itself to imagine whatever it wants to be true. (See Andrewism for details) It will dismiss the potential for awareness to expand beyond the boundaries set by mind so that there is nothing that can threaten mind. (See Andrewism for details) It will declare illusion to be truth, ignorance to be wisdom, and confusion to be clarity. (See Andrewism and Tzuism for details) That's it in a nutshell.  |
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Post by Reefs on Jul 6, 2013 10:15:27 GMT -5
There's a pattern here I see repeated often. Mind will attempt to save itself by absorbing it's enemy, and it can be quite effective. That is, it will classify all knowledge, insight, realization, 'truth' as irrelevant mind noise, and declare itself done. It can claim it knows nothing while secretly holding tightly to all manner of knowledge. (See Andrewism for details) It will declare nothing is true or false, thereby relieving itself of the burden of discrimination, and freeing itself to imagine whatever it wants to be true. (See Andrewism for details) It will dismiss the potential for awareness to expand beyond the boundaries set by mind so that there is nothing that can threaten mind. (See Andrewism for details) It will declare illusion to be truth, ignorance to be wisdom, and confusion to be clarity. (See Andrewism and Tzuism for details) a)I haven't said 'I know nothing', I have said that its possible that I do know a bunch of stuff. b) I haven't said 'nothing is true or false', I have said 'nothing is necessarily true or false'. c) I have barely touched on the subject of 'awareness' other than to say that it is speculation that it is prior. d) I have not said that illusion is truth, ignorance is wisdom, confusion is clarity, though I have spoken of losing the need to put in barriers. Nice set of giraffes!
Message from Niz to Andrew:
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Post by andrew on Jul 6, 2013 10:21:20 GMT -5
a)I haven't said 'I know nothing', I have said that its possible that I do know a bunch of stuff. b) I haven't said 'nothing is true or false', I have said 'nothing is necessarily true or false'. c) I have barely touched on the subject of 'awareness' other than to say that it is speculation that it is prior. d) I have not said that illusion is truth, ignorance is wisdom, confusion is clarity, though I have spoken of losing the need to put in barriers. Nice set of giraffes!
Message from Niz to Andrew:
Enigma, put your little poodle back on its lead please. |
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Post by Reefs on Jul 6, 2013 11:17:44 GMT -5
Message from Niz to Andrew:
Enigma, put your little poodle back on its lead please. Hey Andy, this is the moderated area. FYI.  |
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 11:24:14 GMT -5
There's a pattern here I see repeated often. Mind will attempt to save itself by absorbing it's enemy, and it can be quite effective. That is, it will classify all knowledge, insight, realization, 'truth' as irrelevant mind noise, and declare itself done. It can claim it knows nothing while secretly holding tightly to all manner of knowledge. (See Andrewism for details) It will declare nothing is true or false, thereby relieving itself of the burden of discrimination, and freeing itself to imagine whatever it wants to be true. (See Andrewism for details) It will dismiss the potential for awareness to expand beyond the boundaries set by mind so that there is nothing that can threaten mind. (See Andrewism for details) It will declare illusion to be truth, ignorance to be wisdom, and confusion to be clarity. (See Andrewism and Tzuism for details) Haha, you will not see me declaring anything at all and calling that done until its ALL let go of, you may see me try to simplify things into a Greasy Little Spot that can be more easily let go of though, instead of endless Neti Neti. You will also not see me saying that red is actually green either, so please select a different story that does not make use of a story colored by your past experiences, or better yet, make no story at all LoL Declaring things as irrelevant mind noise, or declaring it as anything at all, and thinking that anything is "done", has nothing to do with what is said or implied here, that is you categorizing and dismissing something that you may not want to explore at this time. To be clear, any knowledge or categorizing, or declaring etc, probably means that you are not "done"....though lumping everything together as meaningless, or irrelevant, or utterly relative etc, may make it easier to throw the whole lump of Knowing away in one shot, instead of trying to "realize" your way out of it one bit at a time ;-) Well, it wasn't really about you specifically. I was talking about a pattern in which mind makes the 'truth' irrelevant so that it can dismiss it. The idea that mind, which does nothing but process knowledge, can unknow what it processes through some apparent letting go process, is absurd. |
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2013 11:30:29 GMT -5
There's a pattern here I see repeated often. Mind will attempt to save itself by absorbing it's enemy, and it can be quite effective. That is, it will classify all knowledge, insight, realization, 'truth' as irrelevant mind noise, and declare itself done. It can claim it knows nothing while secretly holding tightly to all manner of knowledge. (See Andrewism for details) It will declare nothing is true or false, thereby relieving itself of the burden of discrimination, and freeing itself to imagine whatever it wants to be true. (See Andrewism for details) It will dismiss the potential for awareness to expand beyond the boundaries set by mind so that there is nothing that can threaten mind. (See Andrewism for details) It will declare illusion to be truth, ignorance to be wisdom, and confusion to be clarity. (See Andrewism and Tzuism for details) a)I haven't said 'I know nothing', I have said that its possible that I do know a bunch of stuff. b) I haven't said 'nothing is true or false', I have said 'nothing is necessarily true or false'. c) I have barely touched on the subject of 'awareness' other than to say that it is speculation that it is prior. d) I have not said that illusion is truth, ignorance is wisdom, confusion is clarity, though I have spoken of losing the need to put in barriers. Nice set of giraffes! That's why I referred the reader to Andrewism for the word lawyering details.  |
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Post by Beingist on Jul 6, 2013 12:31:08 GMT -5
Haha, you will not see me declaring anything at all and calling that done until its ALL let go of, you may see me try to simplify things into a Greasy Little Spot that can be more easily let go of though, instead of endless Neti Neti. You will also not see me saying that red is actually green either, so please select a different story that does not make use of a story colored by your past experiences, or better yet, make no story at all LoL Declaring things as irrelevant mind noise, or declaring it as anything at all, and thinking that anything is "done", has nothing to do with what is said or implied here, that is you categorizing and dismissing something that you may not want to explore at this time. To be clear, any knowledge or categorizing, or declaring etc, probably means that you are not "done"....though lumping everything together as meaningless, or irrelevant, or utterly relative etc, may make it easier to throw the whole lump of Knowing away in one shot, instead of trying to "realize" your way out of it one bit at a time ;-) Well, it wasn't really about you specifically. I was talking about a pattern in which mind makes the 'truth' irrelevant so that it can dismiss it. The idea that mind, which does nothing but process knowledge, can unknow what it processes through some apparent letting go process, is absurd. Right. Niz and "what the mind has done the mind must undo" is absurd.  |
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Post by andrew on Jul 6, 2013 13:27:44 GMT -5
Enigma, put your little poodle back on its lead please. Hey Andy, this is the moderated area. FYI. You don't belong in the moderated section because your ontology does not allow space for having values. My ontology does. I am happy to take this to the unmoderated section if you like. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 6, 2013 13:30:45 GMT -5
Haha, you will not see me declaring anything at all and calling that done until its ALL let go of, you may see me try to simplify things into a Greasy Little Spot that can be more easily let go of though, instead of endless Neti Neti. You will also not see me saying that red is actually green either, so please select a different story that does not make use of a story colored by your past experiences, or better yet, make no story at all LoL Declaring things as irrelevant mind noise, or declaring it as anything at all, and thinking that anything is "done", has nothing to do with what is said or implied here, that is you categorizing and dismissing something that you may not want to explore at this time. To be clear, any knowledge or categorizing, or declaring etc, probably means that you are not "done"....though lumping everything together as meaningless, or irrelevant, or utterly relative etc, may make it easier to throw the whole lump of Knowing away in one shot, instead of trying to "realize" your way out of it one bit at a time ;-) Well, it wasn't really about you specifically. I was talking about a pattern in which mind makes the 'truth' irrelevant so that it can dismiss it. The idea that mind, which does nothing but process knowledge, can unknow what it processes through some apparent letting go process, is absurd. I don't know if you are talking about me there at all given that you were earlier, but let me be clear, I don't make truth irrelevant, and I am quite okay with telling you when you are telling lies. However, there is no depth of need here to place a firm or fixed boundary between truth/falsity and any other dualities. Duality has been 'seen through'. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 6, 2013 13:50:39 GMT -5
Greetings.. Well, it wasn't really about you specifically. I was talking about a pattern in which mind makes the 'truth' irrelevant so that it can dismiss it. The idea that mind, which does nothing but process knowledge, can unknow what it processes through some apparent letting go process, is absurd. I don't know if you are talking about me there at all given that you were earlier, but let me be clear, I don't make truth irrelevant, and I am quite okay with telling you when you are telling lies. However, there is no depth of need here to place a firm or fixed boundary between truth/falsity and any other dualities. Duality has been 'seen through'. Who/what is it that sees through duality? Be well.. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 6, 2013 13:53:08 GMT -5
Greetings.. I don't know if you are talking about me there at all given that you were earlier, but let me be clear, I don't make truth irrelevant, and I am quite okay with telling you when you are telling lies. However, there is no depth of need here to place a firm or fixed boundary between truth/falsity and any other dualities. Duality has been 'seen through'. Who/what is it that sees through duality? Be well.. Given that every conversation we have here starts with the assumption of individuality (and that's fine with me), I am fine with saying that the individual sees through it. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 6, 2013 13:57:37 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Who/what is it that sees through duality? Be well.. Given that every conversation we have here starts with the assumption of individuality (and that's fine with me), I am fine with saying that the individual sees through it. Cool.. of course, that puts the individual separate from 'what is seen' when duality is seen through.. Be well.. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 6, 2013 14:03:46 GMT -5
Greetings.. Given that every conversation we have here starts with the assumption of individuality (and that's fine with me), I am fine with saying that the individual sees through it. Cool.. of course, that puts the individual separate from 'what is seen' when duality is seen through.. Be well.. Yes, I'm not saying that duality disappears, what I have said is that the need for fixed boundaries and divides is released, so in that moment of seeing, the relationship between seer and seen changes. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jul 6, 2013 15:17:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Cool.. of course, that puts the individual separate from 'what is seen' when duality is seen through.. Be well.. Yes, I'm not saying that duality disappears, what I have said is that the need for fixed boundaries and divides is released, so in that moment of seeing, the relationship between seer and seen changes. The relationship changes, but there is still a seer and that which is seen, between which there is a changing relationship.. Be well.. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 6, 2013 15:20:01 GMT -5
Greetings.. Yes, I'm not saying that duality disappears, what I have said is that the need for fixed boundaries and divides is released, so in that moment of seeing, the relationship between seer and seen changes. The relationship changes, but there is still a seer and that which is seen, between which there is a changing relationship.. Be well.. okay |
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