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Post by enigma on May 24, 2013 21:31:26 GMT -5
I said most suffering folks have no interest in peace. I didn't say they weren't interested in having emotional pain cease. What is Peace really if not an absence? I said "I didn't say they weren't interested in having emotional pain cease." I didn't say peace wasn't an absence. Absolute truth is an unknown term to most peeps. You've been talking to speerachool folks too long. It's relatively true that you posted here today. It is not an absolute truth. Separation is not true. Without that idea, we don't need the idea of oneness. You don't need to believe that oneness is true, just stop believing in separation. What kind of idiot does that? Seriously, have you actually played out that fantasy in your mind to see how bluntly ineffective it is?
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Post by tzujanli on May 24, 2013 21:34:21 GMT -5
Greetings.. Is it necessarily the specific "belief in separation" that brings a sense of lack, divisiveness and fear, or is it belief/attachment itself that's the problem? The belief in the separate, volitional self is at the core of suffering. The core of suffering is attachment.. your suffering is wrought by attachment to beliefs about oneness, non-duality, neo-advaita, etc.. The core of suffering is misunderstanding.. misunderstanding what is seen/experienced as something that fits into a belief/model.. Be well..
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Post by Beingist on May 24, 2013 21:35:37 GMT -5
It's been my experience that The issue of being a separate I or not, volitional or non-volitional need never arise for one to relinquish an attachment to a car or to anything else. It does to relinquish attachment to a self, a separate 'I', or volition.
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Post by enigma on May 24, 2013 21:35:40 GMT -5
Nothing is happening behind the scenes. OH but something IS according to you....That which is actually/really beyond the illusion of individuated experience.....Oneness. You think I'm saying there's a oneness doohickey beyond the illusion somewhere? I think I reached my insanity threshold for the day.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 21:37:51 GMT -5
Personal experience can be deceiving, as you see what you want to see. We all see what our focus allows us to see. In your case, your lowly opinion of most humans seals the deal over and over again. Would you really expect me to argue with a day to day experience where I encounter people who are mostly loving, kind and intelligent?........ Please...help me see through this horrible illusion E....most of the folks I encounter these days are cool, what's going on...how can I set my seeing straight? The very act of looking to see the fleeting nature of well being when it hinges upon material things....seeing and experiencing first hand that even in the face of 'loss' Peace can prevail. At five my daughter told me that she was no longer going to allow her wanting of something to pull her from her happy spot because it was not really those things that made her feel that 'real kind' of happy. It's not rocket science and it doesn't take a realization of oneness being true over separation.
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Post by enigma on May 24, 2013 21:39:23 GMT -5
Greetings.. The belief in the separate, volitional self is at the core of suffering. The core of suffering is attachment.. your suffering is wrought by attachment to beliefs about oneness, non-duality, neo-advaita, etc.. The core of suffering is misunderstanding.. misunderstanding what is seen/experienced as something that fit into a belief/model.. Be well.. There is no attachment until there is someone to be attached. The core of suffering is the belief in the separate, volitional self that then becomes attached.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 21:47:40 GMT -5
I said "I didn't say they weren't interested in having emotional pain cease." I didn't say peace wasn't an absence. If folks are seeking the absence of emotional pain, whether they label it as such or not, aren't they really after Peace? My experience is quite full of 'em these days...or would that just be my denial again? Perfect. Can you stop arguing for the truth of oneness now?
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 21:51:15 GMT -5
OH but something IS according to you....That which is actually/really beyond the illusion of individuated experience.....Oneness. You think I'm saying there's a oneness doohickey beyond the illusion somewhere? I think I reached my insanity threshold for the day. I said nothing about a 'doohickey'....just that beyond the illusion of separation, you see something as being 'actual' and that is Oneness. IN this case 'actual' hinges upon the identification of something else that is not. Actual lies beyond/behind that which is not.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 21:54:52 GMT -5
It does to relinquish attachment to a self, a separate 'I', or volition. It's possible to engage with experience of a separate self and volition without being attached to any of it. That's the distinction I think many fail to see.
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Post by enigma on May 24, 2013 21:57:17 GMT -5
Personal experience can be deceiving, as you see what you want to see. We all see what our focus allows us to see. In your case, your lowly opinion of most humans seals the deal over and over again. Would you really expect me to argue with a day to day experience where I encounter people who are mostly loving, kind and intelligent?........ Please...help me see through this horrible illusion E....most of the folks I encounter these days are cool, what's going on...how can I set my seeing straight? Most of the folks I encounter are cool, loving, kind and intelligent too. Tell me, do other peeps let you get away with manipulating conversations the way you do? How does peace prevail for the separate person in the face of loss? How much loss can the separate person endure before peace no longer prevails? There's a magical step here that you're not revealing. Please enlighten us. 7 billion separate persons await the magic formula for peace. They've been searching for millennia, and by George here you found it! Share please.
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Post by Beingist on May 24, 2013 22:00:59 GMT -5
It's possible to engage with experience of a separate self and volition without being attached to any of it. That's the distinction I think many fail to see. Nope, sorry. Guess this is where we shall disagree. Attachment to experience comes from attachment to a separate self. (Not that there's anything inherently 'wrong' with that.)
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Post by enigma on May 24, 2013 22:02:49 GMT -5
I said "I didn't say they weren't interested in having emotional pain cease." I didn't say peace wasn't an absence. If folks are seeking the absence of emotional pain, whether they label it as such or not, aren't they really after Peace? Most are after happiness, cuz that's what they know. If somebody is after peace, he doesn't really understand it, cuz peace passeth understandingeth. No, nobody is really looking for peace. Why? Does it bother you?
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Post by enigma on May 24, 2013 22:04:21 GMT -5
You think I'm saying there's a oneness doohickey beyond the illusion somewhere? I think I reached my insanity threshold for the day. I said nothing about a 'doohickey'....just that beyond the illusion of separation, you see something as being 'actual' and that is Oneness. IN this case 'actual' hinges upon the identification of something else that is not. Actual lies beyond/behind that which is not. Fantasy.
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Post by enigma on May 24, 2013 22:06:22 GMT -5
Nope, sorry. Guess this is where we shall disagree. Attachment to experience comes from attachment to a separate self. (Not that there's anything inherently 'wrong' with that.) Yup.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 22:11:50 GMT -5
[quote author=Enigma: Most of the folks I encounter are cool, loving, kind and intelligent too. Tell me, do other peeps let you get away with manipulating conversations the way you do?
[/quote]
My opinion of 'most others' is based upon my first hand experience with others who show up in my reality...I assumed yours was too. If most of the folks you actually encounter in your reality are 'cool' (kind, loving, intelligent), where do you come up with this idea that 'most' humans are insane and suffering miserably?
It's about releasing attachment...eventually to ALL ideas...ALL beliefs.
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