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Post by amit on May 22, 2013 11:15:49 GMT -5
Nonduality is madness. The idea that, despite the very convincing appearance of difference, there is no separation whatsoever, flies in the face of our usual experience. For bevity lets call this complete absence of difference 'Oneness'. This is a very challenging idea for Hitler, or anyone or anything you find unacceptable, was simply Oneness Hitlering.
The implications can be staggering for the seeker who resonates with this idea.. If there is no separation then there are no separate persons, no personal thoughts, feelings, or responsibility.
The mind can be attracted to this idea for the seeker feels disconnected and passes this problem to the mind to solve. The mind may sense the complete unconditional trancendence implied by the idea for obviously there can be no disconnection if all is already One no matter how separate everything appears.
A mind that is used to solving problems successfully will tend not to be attracted to this idea and be more comfortable on a path with some form of practice towards the goal of enlightenment. .
If the mind resonates with the idea, there may be a period of assimilation when the unacceptable implications mentioned above are challenged. Depending on the severity of conditioning, compared to the desire for connection, the mind may or may not assimilate the idea. It may reject and continue to seek. But from a nondual perspective will eventually return to nonduality as the paths followed disappoint for from a nondual perspective. enlightenment is impossible to achieve for it already is. This is why there is no path or practice in nonduality. Enlightenment, awakening, or realization cannot increase connection for it must already be Oneness not realizing!
The term Oneness is not meant to indicate the existance of some sort of entity but merely that, despite the appearance of difference, All is One.
amit
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 12:27:59 GMT -5
Nonduality is madness. The idea that, despite the very convincing appearance of difference, there is no separation whatsoever, flies in the face of our usual experience. For bevity lets call this complete absence of difference 'Oneness'. This is a very challenging idea for Hitler, or anyone or anything you find unacceptable, was simply Oneness Hitlering. The implications can be staggering for the seeker who resonates with this idea.. If there is no separation then there are no separate persons, no personal thoughts, feelings, or responsibility. The mind can be attracted to this idea for the seeker feels disconnected and passes this problem to the mind to solve. The mind may sense the complete unconditional trancendence implied by the idea for obviously there can be no disconnection if all is already One no matter how separate everything appears. A mind that is used to solving problems successfully will tend not to be attracted to this idea and be more comfortable on a path with some form of practice towards the goal of enlightenment. . If the mind resonates with the idea, there may be a period of assimilation when the unacceptable implications mentioned above are challenged. Depending on the severity of conditioning, compared to the desire for connection, the mind may or may not assimilate the idea. It may reject and continue to seek. But from a nondual perspective will eventually return to nonduality as the paths followed disappoint for from a nondual perspective. enlightenment is impossible to achieve for it already is. This is why there is no path or practice in nonduality. Enlightenment, awakening, or realization cannot increase connection for it must already be Oneness not realizing! The term Oneness is not meant to indicate the existance of some sort of entity but merely that, despite the appearance of difference, All is One. amit I like that: "depending on the severity of conditioning...." Maybe I've been severely conditioned, but I find myself adopting a cynical mode. Maybe it's just forumitis. "Oneness" sounds cool, like it's time for a picnic, and even "non-separation" has me wanting to light some incense. "Enlightenment," "awakening," and "realization" all are words that are completely unapproachable for me to use in any genuine sense. And this is not because I understand that they are inadequate terms that refer to a personal perspective on oneness/reality. Most of what I've been learning at the forum are just different aspects of bullsh!t detection. Hopefully my detectors have gotten more finely calibrated.
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Post by silence on May 22, 2013 17:29:48 GMT -5
Nonduality is madness. The idea that, despite the very convincing appearance of difference, there is no separation whatsoever, flies in the face of our usual experience. For bevity lets call this complete absence of difference 'Oneness'. This is a very challenging idea for Hitler, or anyone or anything you find unacceptable, was simply Oneness Hitlering. The implications can be staggering for the seeker who resonates with this idea.. If there is no separation then there are no separate persons, no personal thoughts, feelings, or responsibility. The mind can be attracted to this idea for the seeker feels disconnected and passes this problem to the mind to solve. The mind may sense the complete unconditional trancendence implied by the idea for obviously there can be no disconnection if all is already One no matter how separate everything appears. A mind that is used to solving problems successfully will tend not to be attracted to this idea and be more comfortable on a path with some form of practice towards the goal of enlightenment. . If the mind resonates with the idea, there may be a period of assimilation when the unacceptable implications mentioned above are challenged. Depending on the severity of conditioning, compared to the desire for connection, the mind may or may not assimilate the idea. It may reject and continue to seek. But from a nondual perspective will eventually return to nonduality as the paths followed disappoint for from a nondual perspective. enlightenment is impossible to achieve for it already is. This is why there is no path or practice in nonduality. Enlightenment, awakening, or realization cannot increase connection for it must already be Oneness not realizing! The term Oneness is not meant to indicate the existance of some sort of entity but merely that, despite the appearance of difference, All is One. amit I like that: "depending on the severity of conditioning...." Maybe I've been severely conditioned, but I find myself adopting a cynical mode. Maybe it's just forumitis. "Oneness" sounds cool, like it's time for a picnic, and even "non-separation" has me wanting to light some incense. "Enlightenment," "awakening," and "realization" all are words that are completely unapproachable for me to use in any genuine sense. And this is not because I understand that they are inadequate terms that refer to a personal perspective on oneness/reality. Most of what I've been learning at the forum are just different aspects of bullsh!t detection. Hopefully my detectors have gotten more finely calibrated. You've never realized anything?
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Post by topology on May 22, 2013 18:40:31 GMT -5
I like that: "depending on the severity of conditioning...." Maybe I've been severely conditioned, but I find myself adopting a cynical mode. Maybe it's just forumitis. "Oneness" sounds cool, like it's time for a picnic, and even "non-separation" has me wanting to light some incense. "Enlightenment," "awakening," and "realization" all are words that are completely unapproachable for me to use in any genuine sense. And this is not because I understand that they are inadequate terms that refer to a personal perspective on oneness/reality. Most of what I've been learning at the forum are just different aspects of bullsh!t detection. Hopefully my detectors have gotten more finely calibrated. You've never realized anything? I think he's about to make a realization in answering your question...
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Post by amit on May 22, 2013 19:42:22 GMT -5
Hi Maxprophet,
It doesn't matter if it still feels like there is separate person there who hasn't realized anything. That is no less connected than a separate person having completely dropped away. Hearing about the latter can make the seeker feel that he or she hasn't arrived yet, but of course it is already Oneness not feeling like a separate person who hasn't realized anything. It doesn't matter either way. Each is the other and Oneness dreaming difference where there bis none. There is no escape from Oneness, you cant have a day off:-)
amit
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Post by amit on May 22, 2013 19:46:12 GMT -5
In the 3rd line take out the word 'not'. Sorry :0
amit
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Post by laughter on May 22, 2013 20:00:54 GMT -5
There is no escape from Oneness, you cant have a day off:-)
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 20:53:08 GMT -5
I like that: "depending on the severity of conditioning...." Maybe I've been severely conditioned, but I find myself adopting a cynical mode. Maybe it's just forumitis. "Oneness" sounds cool, like it's time for a picnic, and even "non-separation" has me wanting to light some incense. "Enlightenment," "awakening," and "realization" all are words that are completely unapproachable for me to use in any genuine sense. And this is not because I understand that they are inadequate terms that refer to a personal perspective on oneness/reality. Most of what I've been learning at the forum are just different aspects of bullsh!t detection. Hopefully my detectors have gotten more finely calibrated. You've never realized anything? Well I just realized that I should have taken the extra time to capitalize Realization to dress up a word that is used by normal duality bound dream monkeys so as not to invite snarky rejoinders from nonduality masters embodying silence.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 20:56:51 GMT -5
Hi Maxprophet, It doesn't matter if it still feels like there is separate person there who hasn't realized anything. That is no less connected than a separate person having completely dropped away. Hearing about the latter can make the seeker feel that he or she hasn't arrived yet, but of course it is already Oneness feeling like a separate person who hasn't realized anything. It doesn't matter either way. Each is the other and Oneness dreaming difference where there bis none. There is no escape from Oneness, you cant have a day off:-) amit I don't really get why Oneness has to do all this masochistic game playing.
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Post by enigma on May 22, 2013 21:28:50 GMT -5
Hi Maxprophet, It doesn't matter if it still feels like there is separate person there who hasn't realized anything. That is no less connected than a separate person having completely dropped away. Hearing about the latter can make the seeker feel that he or she hasn't arrived yet, but of course it is already Oneness not feeling like a separate person who hasn't realized anything. It doesn't matter either way. Each is the other and Oneness dreaming difference where there bis none. There is no escape from Oneness, you cant have a day off:-) amit It doesn't make oneness not oneness, but it does matter whether or not it has been realized.
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Post by enigma on May 22, 2013 21:35:30 GMT -5
You've never realized anything? Well I just realized that I should have taken the extra time to capitalize Realization to dress up a word that is used by normal duality bound dream monkeys so as not to invite snarky rejoinders from nonduality masters embodying silence. So you've never Realized anything?
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Post by enigma on May 22, 2013 21:36:50 GMT -5
Hi Maxprophet, It doesn't matter if it still feels like there is separate person there who hasn't realized anything. That is no less connected than a separate person having completely dropped away. Hearing about the latter can make the seeker feel that he or she hasn't arrived yet, but of course it is already Oneness feeling like a separate person who hasn't realized anything. It doesn't matter either way. Each is the other and Oneness dreaming difference where there bis none. There is no escape from Oneness, you cant have a day off:-) amit I don't really get why Oneness has to do all this masochistic game playing. Oneness isn't an entity.
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Post by amit on May 23, 2013 2:35:40 GMT -5
Hi Maxprophet,
Nonduality, the idea that there is no separation despite the appearance of difference is just that.....an idea. Seekers may resonate with and have a profound realization in response to it or not. From a nondual perspective it doesn't matter either way because it is already Oneness not resonating. Why Oneness tortures, kills and rapes itself can be a very challenging question for seekers and often leads to rejection of nonduality. Unconditional total transcendence is not enough to overcome conditioning.
We tend to find foxes killing rabbits for survival acceptable. The nondual idea that may transcend the unacceptable is that for the illusion of duality to appear it must be held in an automatically adjusting perfect balance (symbiosis) covering the entire manifestation assumed to be infinite. That balance may not be apparent 'locally'. Survival threats are perceived on all sorts of levels including the survival of the defensive (for good reason) mind created character we call Ego. There is no intention here to denigrate the Ego in any way. It is created by the mind to defend against the terrible abuse of conditioning. Some are more successful at this defense than others. Both the mind and the Ego are Oneness.
Why the illusion of separation bothers to appear at all is also a challenging question. Maybe there are clues from our experience for after all in the nondual story Oneness is us. Usually we desire to live even when things are difficult. Maybe that desire is reason enough. In a small minority of cases Oneness as mind may decide that suicide is the best it can do.
Why should there be that desire? Life can be interesting, intensely joyful and pleasurable as well. You know what can happen when you start having too much fun:)
What do you think?
amit
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Post by amit on May 23, 2013 2:47:37 GMT -5
Hi Enigma,
The disconnection seekers feel cannot possible be overcome by realization because as we both know in the nonduality story disconnection is impossible.
amit
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Post by laughter on May 23, 2013 6:28:46 GMT -5
Why the illusion of separation bothers to appear at all is also a challenging question. Not really. Even the mind can answer that one. Without perspective, there's nothing for there to have perspective on. Without the questioner, "to be or not to be?" cannot be asked and the asking is what the void itself demands. In nothing, the question of something emerges. To speak objectively, the subject-object split is the (likely inevitable) result of 10's of billions of years of a machine playing itself out. It's the destiny of chaotic order. The subject-object split, in all it's glorious deception, is what is, and without it there is no "Oneness".
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