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Post by silver on Mar 20, 2013 21:46:01 GMT -5
Well, whether or not you're looking for 'purpose' in life, you seem to be fulfilling a special strength and talent with your excellent way of challenging people's assumptions, James. I like that - I like that a lot. I can challenge them because they were my asumptions at one time. That makes it a piece o' cake for you. (Make mine strawberry) - speaking of produce, are you able to grow anything now in your hothouse or your house? What happens in wintertime? Anything?
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Post by whiteshaman on Mar 20, 2013 21:46:35 GMT -5
Some call it Freedom as well. You, yup. Freedom from the illusion of exclusive identification with the separate, volitional self that lies at the core of all struggle. I see it more as we are all trying to eliminate this struggle you mention so we create alternate realities such as creating the reason for them being a separate self. You have found a way to eliminate struggle but it is no different than me finding a way to deal with emptiness, by creating my reality. That's all, nothing more and nothing universally so.
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Post by Beingist on Mar 20, 2013 21:50:17 GMT -5
You, yup. Freedom from the illusion of exclusive identification with the separate, volitional self that lies at the core of all struggle. I see it more as we are all trying to eliminate this struggle you mention so we create alternate realities such as creating the reason for them being a separate self. You have found a way to eliminate struggle but it is no different than me finding a way to deal with emptiness, by creating my reality. That's all, nothing more and nothing universally so. Well, it seems like you've got everything figgered out, so I'll just bow out of the conversation, now. Have a nice day!
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 20, 2013 23:13:29 GMT -5
You, yup. Freedom from the illusion of exclusive identification with the separate, volitional self that lies at the core of all struggle. I see it more as we are all trying to eliminate this struggle you mention so we create alternate realities such as creating the reason for them being a separate self. You have found a way to eliminate struggle but it is no different than me finding a way to deal with emptiness, by creating my reality. That's all, nothing more and nothing universally so. There is something still trying, yeah. Habits of mind being triggered by daily remembrances. All kinds of things are being thrown out there by the mind to give it something to relate to, hold on to, give it something to react to to perpetuate "its" experience. It is all just happening though. Look at what happens when you don't think twice. What you thought you were, the ego, was working well enough. It appears something else has been seen that has undermined the central role of the ego. What was that? Why is there bewilderment after this seeing? The power of the ego over the moment is dying. By simple force of habit, there is still "identifying with it" and "feelings for it" happening. By doing so, it appears that there's lamenting, sorrow, feelings for what is, KNOWINGLY, no longer "substantial", empty. There's a residue, a trace of something that has already gone now. It never was; it was more of a misunderstanding that "something" was there to begin with. You're just noticing the 'me' fading. Good riddance.
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Post by enigma on Mar 21, 2013 0:14:53 GMT -5
Peace is the absence of the struggle with feeling. Seems to me to be related somehow to the end of "why ___?" ... to bring this back to WS's realization on the nature of meaning. .... notice we can cast questions about motivation as "why ___?"'s In radical subjectivity, all the 'why' questions are misconceived.
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Post by enigma on Mar 21, 2013 0:21:38 GMT -5
Sounds like your intent is to answer every post with, 'And that's how you make sense of it so that there's something to grasp'. Okay, I'll bite. It's not clear to me whether you're trying to make it make logical sense, or to get it to stop hurting. I figure if it didn't hurt, nobody would care if it made sense or not. Lets try something controversial for a change. (hehe)The ground I stand on **pounding feet on ground** is sadness. It's what makes all my joy possible, so I don't want it to go away. I scribble "JOY" in the dirt, I jump for joy and land with a thud on the ground. I hug Marie in the morning while standing on the ground. Tears of joy and tears of sorrow both fall from my face and land on the ground. It's the one constant in my life, and it's absolutely guaranteed to bring me joy. It cannot be otherwise. The harder the ground, the softer the clouds. No not my intent. I'd rather see otherwise. Not sure what the pounding feet thing is about s. I will say this as a suggestion for having a meaningful conversation...............don't make it about me. Let's discuss, rather, why life is wonderful for you. It seems maybe that you are agreeing with what I have found and that is that if you want it to be joyful then it will. but as i said earlier, this doesn't change how in so many ways, ti sucks for others. It does in a small way but life doesn't care either way. Axshooly, it was about me.
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Post by enigma on Mar 21, 2013 0:25:28 GMT -5
Honestly, if there was something unimaginable beyond this, I'm not sure I could imagine wanting it. In fact who could, who would want what cannot be imagined? Or better yet why? If you're looking for something beyond this, you will find absolutely nothing. If you're willing to accept that this is it, you will find everything. I'm pretty sure that's what peeps are finding unimaginable. **Pounding feet on ground**
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Post by enigma on Mar 21, 2013 0:28:48 GMT -5
First, just to say....'a discussion'??!! That's a hell of a big ask for us James hehe. How it works for me is simple. I attribute meaning to life/existence that feels right. I go with what sits with my heart and my Being, and what seems to be truthful. And I would also say that I do apply logic to this...I study whether there is 'logical sense' in what seems right to me, but in the end, no matter how good the logic is, it is never going to be proof. To give an example. It feels right to me that there is some kind of individual consciousness, soul or atman that is prior to the body. I can't prove it, I see it is a speculation, but none the less, it feels certain. Another one is....it feels right to me that that the essence of life is love. That even when people do horrible brutal things, that in a subtle way, it is still born out of love. Another one is.....there is purpose to this world. Souls come here for a reason, to experience something, to expand in some way. Another one that seems ever so true to me is that my inner purpose is to experience and express who I am as joy and love. All speculation, I can apply futile logic to it, but the point is that it feels right, and that's good enough. The law of attraction is another one. It can't be proved, but if the results speak for themselves, then that's good enough. I place faith in it, and I place faith in whatever I consider to get good results. I can't prove that love is the essence of life, but I like the result in gives me and I like the faith itself. I can't prove that there is purpose to this world, but I like the result it gives me. A little one minute video for you: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGvHkHUfEJUThanks Andrew...............minus the particulars of your way of looking at things, i do the same thing. Not because i want to but because it is what is left after seeing thru to not knowing anything. Creating your reality consciously. The problem is, for me, it doesn't always bring peace and it seems almost selfish when considering my part in the whole. Kinda like i am living in my own world. It makes the rest of the world look insane....lol It IS insane. Seriously.
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Post by enigma on Mar 21, 2013 0:34:23 GMT -5
If you're looking for something beyond this, you will find absolutely nothing. If you're willing to accept that this is it, you will find everything. Been there, done that, different result. Why is that? You don't seem to be willing now.
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Post by enigma on Mar 21, 2013 0:37:54 GMT -5
You, yup. Freedom from the illusion of exclusive identification with the separate, volitional self that lies at the core of all struggle. I see it more as we are all trying to eliminate this struggle you mention so we create alternate realities such as creating the reason for them being a separate self. You have found a way to eliminate struggle but it is no different than me finding a way to deal with emptiness, by creating my reality. That's all, nothing more and nothing universally so. You think struggle happens and then we create a separate self to explain why?
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Post by enigma on Mar 21, 2013 0:40:30 GMT -5
I see it more as we are all trying to eliminate this struggle you mention so we create alternate realities such as creating the reason for them being a separate self. You have found a way to eliminate struggle but it is no different than me finding a way to deal with emptiness, by creating my reality. That's all, nothing more and nothing universally so. Well, it seems like you've got everything figgered out, so I'll just bow out of the conversation, now. Have a nice day! Yeah, that's what I figured too. That's probly most of the problemless problem.
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Post by laughter on Mar 21, 2013 2:39:09 GMT -5
two lovers kiss for the 3rd time and all words stop as their embrace drops everything tentative and in this there is no analysis as a brace of raindrops, even in their failure to first ask Isaac Newtons permission, aim straight for tops of the now joined heads to transmit the sentenceless message of the cool moisture of the sky in the absence of meaning pick your favorite word: the world, life, the universe, THIS ... whatever, it goes on as it does if we could bottle even a few seconds of the sound in totality of the surf against the entirety of the coastlines of the world and release it into our halls of learning it would easily drown out centuries if not millenia of the droning voices that would categorize, theorize, hypothesize and proselytize us into the sterility of the conceptual a stalk of corn and a strawberry plant, they spend the summer reaching down and gulping from the earth and reaching up and sipping from the sun and they don't ask why neither do they protest as the female of our pair of silent lovers, now pregnant, turns the dust and the rain and sun of the corn and the berry into the new awareness inside of her some evening a few weeks after those heedless droplets reminded her of the heavens above in the midst of her rapture stand before Love if you will and demand an explanation, insist on a semantic but expect the roar of the surf, the sound of the breeze in the leaves and the patter of the rain on your window sill in answer look into the eyes of the newborn nine months later and see if you can gain some inkling of that demand But you embrace and cling to the observation that the corn does not ask why while ignoring, or attempting to ignore that humans do ask why. You have found only what you want to find IMO This is not a judgement, it's just anything found cannot be anything other than what one wants to find so in essence there is nothing to see in the babies eyes except what i want or need to see.
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Post by andrew on Mar 21, 2013 4:59:30 GMT -5
First, just to say....'a discussion'??!! That's a hell of a big ask for us James hehe. How it works for me is simple. I attribute meaning to life/existence that feels right. I go with what sits with my heart and my Being, and what seems to be truthful. And I would also say that I do apply logic to this...I study whether there is 'logical sense' in what seems right to me, but in the end, no matter how good the logic is, it is never going to be proof. To give an example. It feels right to me that there is some kind of individual consciousness, soul or atman that is prior to the body. I can't prove it, I see it is a speculation, but none the less, it feels certain. Another one is....it feels right to me that that the essence of life is love. That even when people do horrible brutal things, that in a subtle way, it is still born out of love. Another one is.....there is purpose to this world. Souls come here for a reason, to experience something, to expand in some way. Another one that seems ever so true to me is that my inner purpose is to experience and express who I am as joy and love. All speculation, I can apply futile logic to it, but the point is that it feels right, and that's good enough. The law of attraction is another one. It can't be proved, but if the results speak for themselves, then that's good enough. I place faith in it, and I place faith in whatever I consider to get good results. I can't prove that love is the essence of life, but I like the result in gives me and I like the faith itself. I can't prove that there is purpose to this world, but I like the result it gives me. A little one minute video for you: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGvHkHUfEJUThanks Andrew...............minus the particulars of your way of looking at things, i do the same thing. Not because i want to but because it is what is left after seeing thru to not knowing anything. Creating your reality consciously. The problem is, for me, it doesn't always bring peace and it seems almost selfish when considering my part in the whole. Kinda like i am living in my own world. It makes the rest of the world look insane....lol I think I understand what you mean, particularly with the 'selfish' bit. Again, what I am about to say seems truthful and right to me, but again I acknowledge that its only meaning that I am attributing. It seems to me that the most relative value I can offer is by taking responsibility for my peace and joy...in a sense, I feel like it isn't really serving anyone (and nor me), for me to be creating negativity and lack in the way that many in the world do. Reminds me of that Einstein saying...''we can't solve a problem at the level of consciousness at which it was created'', and ironically, for me, that means not spending too much time focusing ON the problems themselves. I also like the idea of ''be the change we wish to see in the world''. In a way, I feel like feeling 'selfish' in this particular matter may actually be a bit 'selfish' in itself, because when I am doing that, I am focusing more on me and not on what serves others. Its the same with 'depression'...I used to be pretty adept at creating depression, but eventually I came to see it as a bit of a self-indulgence...I said to someone recently who was a bit down and I knew that by saying this it would make them smile...''If ONLY I had the luxury of being able to depress myself. Oh, how lovely that would be to have the time to depress myself!''. They got it, and it worked. Have you looked closely at what your core values are James? At what you consider your responsibility to yourself and to others is?
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Post by quinn on Mar 21, 2013 5:26:53 GMT -5
It didn't make sense to her and I understand. Letting go of particular events is important no doubt but it doesn't change that it makes no sense. It's plain to see that nothing makes sense. All i am saying is that we need to make sense of it and we all do just that....be it by finding the unimaginable or creating an alternate reality. I was talking about letting go of it 'making sense', not letting go of events (which would be a different subject). She had accepted the actual death, but never let go of the "why?". Instead of speaking in generalities of what we "all" do, why do you think you need to make sense of it?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2013 5:28:51 GMT -5
By simple force of habit, there is still "identifying with it" and "feelings for it" happening. By doing so, it appears that there's lamenting, sorrow, feelings for what is, KNOWINGLY, no longer "substantial", empty. There's a residue, a trace of something that has already gone now. It never was; it was more of a misunderstanding that "something" was there to begin with. You're just noticing the 'me' fading. Good riddance. ?
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