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Post by whiteshaman on Mar 19, 2013 20:21:46 GMT -5
I have the priviledge of not being on the forum all that much which allows me to just live and see without being influenced by the views being presented minute by minute here. This allows me to to see how my own thoughts influence me.
Nothing makes sense. The moment it does, something happens to contradict it. Back to nothing makes sense.
The best I ever saw was that we create our realities, either unconsciously or consciously. I was good with that for a time but the problem is that it doesn't address the whole. The 6 year girl who died of lukemia today leaves me bewildered regardless of what tell myself about life, duality and whatever.
I see spiritual folks dong this. Clinging to something to replace something else. Non duality to replace duality. Calling life an illusion. Calling oneself "it" or "I Am", seeing a person or seeing no person All something to grasp onto IMO I thought by seeing the emptiness of it all, meaning seeing that apart from life being subjective thru me and empty apart from being subjective to me, was an honest and conscious observation but now I see that as a replacement as well.
Tzu pointed out that seeing emptiness really doesn't make sense because you are seeing so therefore life is never empty. I agree but once again nothing makes sense.
Nothing ever fills, nothing ever brings lasting peace. Some see god in everything.............I say that is a replacement.
Can we really just be.........no replacements..........no judgement...........no emotional attachment to what is happening? No answers, no replacements, no understanding?
Would we want to? Could we wnat to?
I say no but on the other hand, there is no going back. There is no trying to fool oneself by replacing that nothing makes sense with something that makes sense.
Open for discussion. Is there anyone here who will admit that nothing makes sense and that is the culmination of what they have learned about making sense of life.
Don't get me wrong, i'm ok with creating the life I have, the family, the job, the likes and dislikes, the sense of self............It just doesn't work for the whole of life to me and therefore leaves me wondering and even saddened. I am often saddened by what i see as life.......even in nature.
If you decide to join in and life makes sense to you then please explain why you feel that way.
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Post by Beingist on Mar 19, 2013 20:27:33 GMT -5
Life is just what IS. You ARE, and therefore, you ARE life.
It's really that simple, though all too often, we try to 'make sense' out of it; we try to find 'meaning' in it; we try to change it to work to our advantage. Yet, all that only leads to suffering, if only our own.
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Post by silver on Mar 19, 2013 20:40:06 GMT -5
I totally hear you loud and clear, James.
So, so much of it is sad and tears my heart clean out.
And yet, what is it that keeps us still going? What is that? Whatever gave us life - that 'energy' - that spark - is Intense - I struggle to make sense of things, as you well know. There's an unexplained happiness / cheerfulness even, within me - I see it in so many people. Most, I guess...
My friend and neighbor, Annie, seemingly has one foot in the grave and the other on the proverbial banana peel, and yet she pushes - and pushes damned hard - she's called me many times to say how much pain she's in and yet, whenever she can finagle - like today, she had me take her to the grocery store - she knows it's futile, but she keeps on keepin' on.
The one word that fits the 'question' of yours is Passion. Final answer.
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Post by whiteshaman on Mar 19, 2013 20:49:04 GMT -5
Life is just what IS. You ARE, and therefore, you ARE life. It's really that simple, though all too often, we try to 'make sense' out of it; we try to find 'meaning' in it; we try to change it to work to our advantage. Yet, all that only leads to suffering, if only our own. Respectfully, you just told me the way you make sense of it. What if you let go of the thought............life is just what IS..........etc? Please understand, I've been there. maybe life is more. There certainly have been events, many in my life, that suggest it is. See you, to me, are making sense of life not making sense. it is still grasping onto something and for me, it has been something I'd rather not grasp. Meaning that I would rather create the life that I am moment by moment, consciously, then just cling to the thought that I can't. In other words make the most out of the fact that it doesn't make sense and the fact that realizing that leaves one feeling saddened...for me anyway.
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Post by whiteshaman on Mar 19, 2013 20:51:59 GMT -5
I totally hear you loud and clear, James.
So, so much of it is sad and tears my heart clean out.
And yet, what is it that keeps us still going? What is that? Whatever gave us life - that 'energy' - that spark - is Intense - I struggle to make sense of things, as you well know. There's an unexplained happiness / cheerfulness even, within me - I see it in so many people. Most, I guess...
My friend and neighbor, Annie, seemingly has one foot in the grave and the other on the proverbial banana peel, and yet she pushes - and pushes darned hard - she's called me many times to say how much pain she's in and yet, whenever she can finagle - like today, she had me take her to the grocery store - she knows it's futile, but she keeps on keepin' on.
The one word that fits the 'question' of yours is Passion. Final answer. Yes and that's part of why it doesn't make sense. It doesn't 100% not make sense. So much has happened otherwise but equally so much appears to not make sense. The real point of my thread however is to share how we make sense of it and therefore come to realize that is all we are doing............replacing so that there is always something to grasp. Not saying that there anything wrong with that.
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Post by Beingist on Mar 19, 2013 21:09:05 GMT -5
Life is just what IS. You ARE, and therefore, you ARE life. It's really that simple, though all too often, we try to 'make sense' out of it; we try to find 'meaning' in it; we try to change it to work to our advantage. Yet, all that only leads to suffering, if only our own. Respectfully, you just told me the way you make sense of it. What if you let go of the thought............life is just what IS..........etc? Not a matter of making sense of anything. That's the whole point, silly. What is the 'I' that wants to 'create life'? I'm no old man, but I've been around long enough to understand that THIS is as good as it gets.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 19, 2013 21:21:46 GMT -5
Why not look, without trying to reach any conclusions, and see what happens? Why not look so intensely that the looker disappears until only looking continues? The mind can never make sense of the truth, but that does not mean that the truth cannot be realized. Realization does not occur through the mind, nor through a person. Realization occurs when truth discovers what it IS. When the Buddha said, "In all the universe I am the only one," he was referring to something unimaginable. Jesus, Al Hallaj, and innumerable other sages have said, "I am the truth." What were they pointing to?
In the Gospel of Thomas Jesus said, "The kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth and men do not see it." People do not see it because they imagine that they are subjects looking at objects. When the subject disappears, objects also disappear. When the illusion of the subject is seen through, what remains? Why not take a look?
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Post by laughter on Mar 19, 2013 21:40:23 GMT -5
See you, to me, are making sense of life not making sense. it is still grasping onto something and for me, it has been something I'd rather not grasp. WS, here you make the one salient point possible about the realization of the lack of meaning. I didn't see B doing this, but once "there is no meaning" is grasped, there's absolutely no point in going any further than that. No point in making meaning out of "there is no meaning". It's a show-stopper for that which makes meaning. ... yeah that might sound like meaning but it's not, it's just an example of recursion. Observering that "there is no meaning" is a recursive statement is an observation on the nature of it rather than an assignment of meaning to it.
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Post by silver on Mar 19, 2013 21:52:43 GMT -5
I totally hear you loud and clear, James.
So, so much of it is sad and tears my heart clean out.
And yet, what is it that keeps us still going? What is that? Whatever gave us life - that 'energy' - that spark - is Intense - I struggle to make sense of things, as you well know. There's an unexplained happiness / cheerfulness even, within me - I see it in so many people. Most, I guess...
My friend and neighbor, Annie, seemingly has one foot in the grave and the other on the proverbial banana peel, and yet she pushes - and pushes darned hard - she's called me many times to say how much pain she's in and yet, whenever she can finagle - like today, she had me take her to the grocery store - she knows it's futile, but she keeps on keepin' on.
The one word that fits the 'question' of yours is Passion. Final answer. Yes and that's part of why it doesn't make sense. It doesn't 100% not make sense. So much has happened otherwise but equally so much appears to not make sense. The real point of my thread however is to share how we make sense of it and therefore come to realize that is all we are doing............replacing so that there is always something to grasp. Not saying that there anything wrong with that. This place - this world is so crazy. Seems like we've been born into this world and given lotsa make-work - yet we some how 'make something of it' - assign our own meanings - to me, it surely does feel like we're little guinea pigs placed into an experiment chamber with various objects, tests, trials. And so many of us humans go on about our little tests - is someone watching us while we run the mazes? Sometimes it is disconcerting to think about it. *shrug* and I just choose to rudely gesture to these 'watchers' - whether they're real or just in my imagination. And I think women can relate more to the.......'Life has no meaning,' - oh, that. And just continue on...like the Irish-Catholic mom giving birth at the ironing board in The Life of Brian.....she says to someone "Would you get that?" as the baby falls to the floor. *snort*
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 19, 2013 22:05:59 GMT -5
Yes and that's part of why it doesn't make sense. It doesn't 100% not make sense. So much has happened otherwise but equally so much appears to not make sense. The real point of my thread however is to share how we make sense of it and therefore come to realize that is all we are doing............replacing so that there is always something to grasp. Not saying that there anything wrong with that. This place - this world is so crazy. Seems like we've been born into this world and given lotsa make-work - yet we some how 'make something of it' - assign our own meanings - to me, it surely does feel like we're little guinea pigs placed into an experiment chamber with various objects, tests, trials. And so many of us humans go on about our little tests - is someone watching us while we run the mazes? Sometimes it is disconcerting to think about it. *shrug* and I just choose to rudely gesture to these 'watchers' - whether they're real or just in my imagination. And I think women can relate more to the.......'Life has no meaning,' - oh, that. And just continue on...like the Irish-Catholic mom giving birth at the ironing board in The Life of Brian.....she says to someone "Would you get that?" as the baby falls to the floor. *snort* There's some self-less power here Sliver. What is it that could do such things thoughtlessly and aware? Hugs.
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Post by silver on Mar 19, 2013 22:28:33 GMT -5
This place - this world is so crazy. Seems like we've been born into this world and given lotsa make-work - yet we some how 'make something of it' - assign our own meanings - to me, it surely does feel like we're little guinea pigs placed into an experiment chamber with various objects, tests, trials. And so many of us humans go on about our little tests - is someone watching us while we run the mazes? Sometimes it is disconcerting to think about it. *shrug* and I just choose to rudely gesture to these 'watchers' - whether they're real or just in my imagination. And I think women can relate more to the.......'Life has no meaning,' - oh, that. And just continue on...like the Irish-Catholic mom giving birth at the ironing board in The Life of Brian.....she says to someone "Would you get that?" as the baby falls to the floor. *snort* There's some self-less power here Sliver. What is it that could do such things thoughtlessly and aware? Hugs. Gosh....Is that a good thing?
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 19, 2013 23:12:17 GMT -5
There's some self-less power here Sliver. What is it that could do such things thoughtlessly and aware? Hugs. Gosh....Is that a good thing? Depends on the begetter, I guess.
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Post by silver on Mar 19, 2013 23:29:08 GMT -5
Gosh....Is that a good thing? Depends on the begetter, I guess. Well, power's a good thing - I'll take it as a Yes.
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Post by mamza on Mar 19, 2013 23:30:24 GMT -5
I have the priviledge of not being on the forum all that much which allows me to just live and see without being influenced by the views being presented minute by minute here. This allows me to to see how my own thoughts influence me. Nothing makes sense. The moment it does, something happens to contradict it. Back to nothing makes sense. The best I ever saw was that we create our realities, either unconsciously or consciously. I was good with that for a time but the problem is that it doesn't address the whole. The 6 year girl who died of lukemia today leaves me bewildered regardless of what tell myself about life, duality and whatever. I see spiritual folks dong this. Clinging to something to replace something else. Non duality to replace duality. Calling life an illusion. Calling oneself "it" or "I Am", seeing a person or seeing no person All something to grasp onto IMO I thought by seeing the emptiness of it all, meaning seeing that apart from life being subjective thru me and empty apart from being subjective to me, was an honest and conscious observation but now I see that as a replacement as well. Tzu pointed out that seeing emptiness really doesn't make sense because you are seeing so therefore life is never empty. I agree but once again nothing makes sense. Nothing ever fills, nothing ever brings lasting peace. Some see god in everything.............I say that is a replacement. Can we really just be.........no replacements..........no judgement...........no emotional attachment to what is happening? No answers, no replacements, no understanding? Would we want to? Could we wnat to? I say no but on the other hand, there is no going back. There is no trying to fool oneself by replacing that nothing makes sense with something that makes sense. Open for discussion. Is there anyone here who will admit that nothing makes sense and that is the culmination of what they have learned about making sense of life. Don't get me wrong, i'm ok with creating the life I have, the family, the job, the likes and dislikes, the sense of self............It just doesn't work for the whole of life to me and therefore leaves me wondering and even saddened. I am often saddened by what i see as life.......even in nature. If you decide to join in and life makes sense to you then please explain why you feel that way. Man, confusion was my lover for the longest time. If it jives with you, try what ZD suggests and look at the world until the person looking disappears. That's the only thing that's helped me out. You can analyze it to hell and back and nothing will ever make any more sense than it did before, but if you just give it all up and stare with every fiber of your being, it'll all clear up.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 19, 2013 23:53:06 GMT -5
I have the priviledge of not being on the forum all that much which allows me to just live and see without being influenced by the views being presented minute by minute here. This allows me to to see how my own thoughts influence me. Nothing makes sense. The moment it does, something happens to contradict it. Back to nothing makes sense. The best I ever saw was that we create our realities, either unconsciously or consciously. I was good with that for a time but the problem is that it doesn't address the whole. The 6 year girl who died of lukemia today leaves me bewildered regardless of what tell myself about life, duality and whatever. I see spiritual folks dong this. Clinging to something to replace something else. Non duality to replace duality. Calling life an illusion. Calling oneself "it" or "I Am", seeing a person or seeing no person All something to grasp onto IMO I thought by seeing the emptiness of it all, meaning seeing that apart from life being subjective thru me and empty apart from being subjective to me, was an honest and conscious observation but now I see that as a replacement as well. Tzu pointed out that seeing emptiness really doesn't make sense because you are seeing so therefore life is never empty. I agree but once again nothing makes sense. Nothing ever fills, nothing ever brings lasting peace. Some see god in everything.............I say that is a replacement. Can we really just be.........no replacements..........no judgement...........no emotional attachment to what is happening? No answers, no replacements, no understanding? Would we want to? Could we wnat to? I say no but on the other hand, there is no going back. There is no trying to fool oneself by replacing that nothing makes sense with something that makes sense. Open for discussion. Is there anyone here who will admit that nothing makes sense and that is the culmination of what they have learned about making sense of life. Don't get me wrong, i'm ok with creating the life I have, the family, the job, the likes and dislikes, the sense of self............It just doesn't work for the whole of life to me and therefore leaves me wondering and even saddened. I am often saddened by what i see as life.......even in nature. If you decide to join in and life makes sense to you then please explain why you feel that way. Man, confusion was my lover for the longest time. If it jives with you, try what ZD suggests and look at the world until the person looking disappears. That's the only thing that's helped me out. You can analyze it to hell and back and nothing will ever make any more sense than it did before, but if you just give it all up and stare with every fiber of your being, it'll all clear up. That's one way of looking at it. hehe I liked staring at burning candles'; kinda reminded me of my 'self'.
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