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Post by silver on Apr 7, 2015 2:11:08 GMT -5
Heeere we go!
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Post by zin on Apr 7, 2015 2:16:28 GMT -5
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Post by Reefs on Apr 7, 2015 2:24:58 GMT -5
Sorry, but that quote is just such hogwash, I almost fell off my chair laughing. OK. I am not defending anything. You were writing things like essence continues but the person disappears? I am not sure. Everyone thinks differently. The quote you've put there has clearly been written from the vantage point of a separate volitional person that assumes that after death the vantage point of a separate volitional person will continue which means suffering will also continue. And that's not at all what I was talking about.
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Post by zin on Apr 7, 2015 2:35:48 GMT -5
OK. I am not defending anything. You were writing things like essence continues but the person disappears? I am not sure. Everyone thinks differently. The quote you've put there has clearly been written from the vantage point of a separate volitional person that assumes that after death the vantage point of a separate volitional person will continue which means suffering will also continue. And that's not at all what I was talking about. Yes. At the same time he (the writer) has a view of 'reaching unity' through some process but of course what I quoted is very limited. I think you know better than me how big this 'area' is (views on these things). Here I don't wish to lenghten the talk, Silver's post on her day is/was a different post. If there is a thread you had written on these in the past, please tell.
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Post by laughter on Apr 7, 2015 3:13:23 GMT -5
I drive by it many times - the Jack-in-the-Box where I used to drop my son off early in the morning before he went to work at the nearby supermarket. This time, my son scritched at my heart, and felt Sadness creeping in. Now that I'm home from my errands, I'm wondering if he was trying to get in but I thought to myself: he's already in my heart. Well, maybe when the Sadness hits, the Sadness is crowding the inside of my heart and soul, and no room for him.....?! I don't know quite how to get rid of this Sadness when it is the one that seems to be visiting me, but maybe it's there all along, like a squatter in an abandoned house? I'd really like less Sadness...and more Sean, but how? I'm not quite sure. Silver, I am hesitant to send this quote, if you feel it is not appropirate I will delete it. Despite some harsh expressions I think it is a good attitude (described). I mean of course imo sadness is not a fault.. "Feeling is much less dependent on the physical body than sensation and much less dependent on the external world than thinking. Those who are dead, if they have any possibility of development, have much more of a feeling life. That is why what we can do for the dead is from our feelings. It is quite rightly and correctly taught that we should not grieve for the dead. Someone near to us who has died will feel our grief as their own and this is a terrible burden for them to bear. What they need to feel is love and confidence and all the positive emotions that we can transmit. This is the duty we have to those who have died: not to allow ourselves the self-pity of grief, because they will suffer for it, but to be in a state of positive feeling to give strength them strength. (...) The connection with someone who died fifty years ago is as close as the connection with someone who died five minutes ago in the inner world." from Deeper Man by JG Bennett The way I relate to this quote is that I'm pretty sure that those that I've lost would want me to feel anything other than negative, remorseful and binding grief at their passing.
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Post by zin on Apr 7, 2015 3:15:10 GMT -5
Silver, I am hesitant to send this quote, if you feel it is not appropirate I will delete it. Despite some harsh expressions I think it is a good attitude (described). I mean of course imo sadness is not a fault.. "Feeling is much less dependent on the physical body than sensation and much less dependent on the external world than thinking. Those who are dead, if they have any possibility of development, have much more of a feeling life. That is why what we can do for the dead is from our feelings. It is quite rightly and correctly taught that we should not grieve for the dead. Someone near to us who has died will feel our grief as their own and this is a terrible burden for them to bear. What they need to feel is love and confidence and all the positive emotions that we can transmit. This is the duty we have to those who have died: not to allow ourselves the self-pity of grief, because they will suffer for it, but to be in a state of positive feeling to give strength them strength. (...) The connection with someone who died fifty years ago is as close as the connection with someone who died five minutes ago in the inner world." from Deeper Man by JG Bennett The way I relate to this quote is that I'm pretty sure that those that I've lost would want me to feel anything other than negative, remorseful and binding grief at their passing. Thank you.
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Post by Reefs on Apr 7, 2015 4:40:22 GMT -5
Silver, I am hesitant to send this quote, if you feel it is not appropirate I will delete it. Despite some harsh expressions I think it is a good attitude (described). I mean of course imo sadness is not a fault.. "Feeling is much less dependent on the physical body than sensation and much less dependent on the external world than thinking. Those who are dead, if they have any possibility of development, have much more of a feeling life. That is why what we can do for the dead is from our feelings. It is quite rightly and correctly taught that we should not grieve for the dead. Someone near to us who has died will feel our grief as their own and this is a terrible burden for them to bear. What they need to feel is love and confidence and all the positive emotions that we can transmit. This is the duty we have to those who have died: not to allow ourselves the self-pity of grief, because they will suffer for it, but to be in a state of positive feeling to give strength them strength. (...) The connection with someone who died fifty years ago is as close as the connection with someone who died five minutes ago in the inner world." from Deeper Man by JG Bennett The way I relate to this quote is that I'm pretty sure that those that I've lost would want me to feel anything other than negative, remorseful and binding grief at their passing. There's no problem with grief. Being stuck in grief is, because it means severe suffering.
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Post by laughter on Apr 7, 2015 5:28:37 GMT -5
The way I relate to this quote is that I'm pretty sure that those that I've lost would want me to feel anything other than negative, remorseful and binding grief at their passing. There's no problem with grief. Being stuck in grief is, because it means severe suffering. Yes grief is natural. The last I corresponded about this with Quinn I litigated that point and it was a frivolous case. Some loss is felt really really deeply though, so the question about what it means to be stuck can seem to almost border on a sort of cruelty.
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Post by Reefs on Apr 7, 2015 5:41:53 GMT -5
There's no problem with grief. Being stuck in grief is, because it means severe suffering. Yes grief is natural. The last I corresponded about this with Quinn I litigated that point and it was a frivolous case. Some loss is felt really really deeply though, so the question about what it means to be stuck can seem to almost border on a sort of cruelty. The way I see it, death can only be understood from the impersonal perspective, post-SR so to speak. And from that perspective, there is no death, only a change in perspective. From the separate volitional person perspective, however, death is an ending, it's final and that's a tragedy. Anything that is helping someone who is in grief to look at it from that impersonal perspective is helpful, and anything that is holding the grieving one in a false and limited perspective will only prolong the suffering. So, in that sense, the Bennett quote is as cruel as it gets.
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Post by laughter on Apr 7, 2015 5:48:31 GMT -5
Yes grief is natural. The last I corresponded about this with Quinn I litigated that point and it was a frivolous case. Some loss is felt really really deeply though, so the question about what it means to be stuck can seem to almost border on a sort of cruelty. The way I see it, death can only be understood from the impersonal perspective, post-SR so to speak. And from that perspective, there is no death, only a change in perspective. From the separate volitional person perspective, however, death is an ending, it's final and that's a tragedy. Anything that is helping someone who is in grief to look at it from that impersonal perspective is helpful, and anything that is holding the grieving one in a false and limited perspective will only prolong the suffering. So, in that sense, the Bennett quote is as cruel as it gets. I agree insofar in that, simply put, support for a suffering story is support for the suffering. But to be trapped in grief is to be resistant to change, while the natural and even healthy process of grieving itself is an acknowledgement of the loss because of change. We grieve and we mourn for the beauty of that unique expression that's gone and will, quite poignantly, never come again.
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Post by silver on Jul 3, 2015 2:03:40 GMT -5
The way I see it, death can only be understood from the impersonal perspective, post-SR so to speak. And from that perspective, there is no death, only a change in perspective. From the separate volitional person perspective, however, death is an ending, it's final and that's a tragedy. Anything that is helping someone who is in grief to look at it from that impersonal perspective is helpful, and anything that is holding the grieving one in a false and limited perspective will only prolong the suffering. So, in that sense, the Bennett quote is as cruel as it gets. I agree insofar in that, simply put, support for a suffering story is support for the suffering. But to be trapped in grief is to be resistant to change, while the natural and even healthy process of grieving itself is an acknowledgement of the loss because of change. We grieve and we mourn for the beauty of that unique expression that's gone and will, quite poignantly, never come again. *Likes the same post twice*
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Post by silver on Jul 3, 2015 2:06:52 GMT -5
I don't feel that it's a setback, but I feel I could scream so loud that the whole universe could hear it; so loud every speck of dust would shiver And it would sound like a cicada mixed with a young girl's shrill scream And it would keep going on like that, forever. Not one speck would dare ignore it. That's how unfair it is and That's how much I miss my son.
I'm glad I was able to put it into words finally.
It will pass, and it will come round again some time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 2:21:06 GMT -5
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Post by laughter on Jul 3, 2015 21:25:20 GMT -5
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Post by silver on Sept 23, 2015 18:07:56 GMT -5
Sing loud in church And be off-key! Abandon sacred Harmony.
Sing loud and in That singing see The untamed heart That’s always free.
-Adam Fisher
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