fear
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by fear on Jul 2, 2009 17:16:29 GMT -5
Yes Candacechil, Peter is right, I was referring to that experience when I said I was offered enlightenment but couldn't take the whole experience. It was too much to handle. Once in a while I still feel that slowing down of thought (that's what it is from what I've read) and the intense fear is relived but never to the degree that was experienced that morning.
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Post by giannis on Jul 11, 2009 8:35:30 GMT -5
I find that I don't really know what I want. Most of the times, life makes me what I am and gives me my desires. I think that I'm mostly trying things out and after a while I lose faith in them, so "I want" something else. I'm suspicious when I'm being content with something, I know that things are not gonna stay the way they are. I just can't "pause" life. Now I've (faintly) made the decision that I want to learn the truth. But since I don't know the truth, how can I tell if I want it or not... It just happened for me to find myself searching for it, and what the heck.. I say that I want it. It's like life is moving me, not me moving my life. Now that I think of it, I would probably like everything to stay as it is. I'm afraid of change. You know, my parents to stay alive, my girlfriend to keep loving me, my friends meeting and having a good time... but these things are going to change (logically)... or maybe, if everything would stay stable as I now believe I want to, I would probably later freak out and try out new lifestyles. Confused! Let's just say that I would like to have a glimpse of truth (although I'm kind of afraid of it).
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Post by shanelibby on Aug 10, 2009 0:22:35 GMT -5
I don't think a false self can awaken to its True Nature simply because its false(an illusion of sorts). The you, identifys with thoughts, which creates a false sense of a someone. I see the process more as subtraction than addition. You all ready are Conscious-you can't kill it. We can only see what's not true ,never can we know with our thought self, simply because it does'nt exist. If I put clean clear water in a glass jar and asked you what it was you would say clean water. If I then threw a handful of mud into the jar and shook it then asked someone else what is it they would say dirty water. But the water was the same-get rid(filter) out the mud and there sits the pure clean water. The journey is Neti-Neti(not this-not this) it's a negative process, for you already are Pure Consciousness! This i knows nothing.
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Post by zendancer on Aug 10, 2009 12:43:08 GMT -5
shanelibby: You are correct. Who we THINK we are cannot awaken because that is only a set of thoughts. Who we REALLY are is what awakens to Itself. Thinking that the personal self can wake up is like thinking that an imaginary person can wake up. The whole thing is an illusion.
The subtraction thing is okay (the neti-neti), but probably the quickest path is simply placing attention upon what you can see, hear, feel, taste, or smell. It is a more direct path and yields faster results. Anonji, who posts on this board, and I have been discussing this issue, and what worked for both of us was simply focusing on sensory experience rather than thoughts. With sufficient persistence, the mind will eventually shift back to the same mode of operation that was dominant when we were children. If you look at the world and think, "neti neti," that's okay, but why waste time thinking anything? Why not just focus on what you can see and stay with that?
The Buddha supposedly said that anyone who can stop thinking for seven days will wake up, but trying not to think for seven days is a very indirect and difficult approach. It would be more beneficial to simply sit down and listen to whatever sounds are present. You would thereby instantly bring the mind into the present moment. Yes, it will drift off into thoughts again, but by ignoring them and returning to what you can hear, you will reinforce the mode of mind that is responsible for awakening.
In my experience people fall into about four obvious categories when they first start wanting to wake up. There are people whose minds are such a mess that they need to be given concrete physical activities in order to calm them down so that they can take the next step. Then, there are people who are a little better off, but still seriously messed up. These folks can be given a mantra (the Tibetans use this approach a lot) or breath-counting. The repetitive mental activity allows these folks to grab a toehold. Then, there are people whose minds are not totally frenetic and they can be advised to watch the breath, or watch a candle flame, etc. Then, there are people with relatively quiet non-reflective minds, and they can be told about shikan-taza or simply told the truth. People in the last category are what the Buddha said are "like a horse that only has to see the shadow of the whip in order to know what to do." Several years ago, a Zen Master in Hawaii gave a public talk during which he drew a big circle on a chalkboard. In the center he drew a small dot. He then started to explain that who we are is the big circle, but that people think they are the small dot. As soon as he said that, a woman in the back of the room--a woman who had not done any kind of formal practice--suddenly woke up. All she had to see was the shadow of the whip. I suspect that most people on this board are probably in category three, and that is why I would recommend focusing upon sensory experience.
I saw your post about looking for an economical retreat center or ashram. I used to have a long list of such places, but I've misplaced it. If I can find it, I'll post it. It will also depend upon where you live concerning what is available. Certain areas of the country have tons of centers and other areas do not. A lot of centers have programs for people on a limited budget. The Southern Dharma Retreat Center in North Carolina used to offer economical retreats for either groups or individuals, and many Zen centers offer scholarship programs for people on tight budgets. Somewhere there is a website that lists hundreds of places, but I can't remember the URL. Maybe someone on this board will post it for you. Cheers.
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anonji
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by anonji on Aug 10, 2009 13:22:45 GMT -5
There is a USA and Worldwide listing of retreat places over at the TAT website. Go to the TAT Website.
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Post by divinity on Aug 18, 2009 10:25:49 GMT -5
What you have been wanting is currently showing itself in your life. What you have been focusing upon turns up eventually. The trick is that most of the time we are focusing upon what we DON'T want, and that turns up eventually too. When we are wanting more abundance, appreciating all we have now creates more abundance. When we moan and focus on lack of abundance, we get more lack. What I want is to be happy... because when I'm happy I'm of more use to those around me and I am functioning at a high level of productivity, and I'm healthier and feel good and energetic. She who can be truly happy in all situations is truly enlightened.
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Post by onehandclapping on Aug 4, 2013 19:31:00 GMT -5
shanelibby: You are correct. Who we THINK we are cannot awaken because that is only a set of thoughts. Who we REALLY are is what awakens to Itself. Thinking that the personal self can wake up is like thinking that an imaginary person can wake up. The whole thing is an illusion. The subtraction thing is okay (the neti-neti), but probably the quickest path is simply placing attention upon what you can see, hear, feel, taste, or smell. It is a more direct path and yields faster results. Anonji, who posts on this board, and I have been discussing this issue, and what worked for both of us was simply focusing on sensory experience rather than thoughts. With sufficient persistence, the mind will eventually shift back to the same mode of operation that was dominant when we were children. If you look at the world and think, "neti neti," that's okay, but why waste time thinking anything? Why not just focus on what you can see and stay with that? The Buddha supposedly said that anyone who can stop thinking for seven days will wake up, but trying not to think for seven days is a very indirect and difficult approach. It would be more beneficial to simply sit down and listen to whatever sounds are present. You would thereby instantly bring the mind into the present moment. Yes, it will drift off into thoughts again, but by ignoring them and returning to what you can hear, you will reinforce the mode of mind that is responsible for awakening. In my experience people fall into about four obvious categories when they first start wanting to wake up. There are people whose minds are such a mess that they need to be given concrete physical activities in order to calm them down so that they can take the next step. Then, there are people who are a little better off, but still seriously messed up. These folks can be given a mantra (the Tibetans use this approach a lot) or breath-counting. The repetitive mental activity allows these folks to grab a toehold. Then, there are people whose minds are not totally frenetic and they can be advised to watch the breath, or watch a candle flame, etc. Then, there are people with relatively quiet non-reflective minds, and they can be told about shikan-taza or simply told the truth. People in the last category are what the Buddha said are "like a horse that only has to see the shadow of the whip in order to know what to do." Several years ago, a Zen Master in Hawaii gave a public talk during which he drew a big circle on a chalkboard. In the center he drew a small dot. He then started to explain that who we are is the big circle, but that people think they are the small dot. As soon as he said that, a woman in the back of the room--a woman who had not done any kind of formal practice--suddenly woke up. All she had to see was the shadow of the whip. I suspect that most people on this board are probably in category three, and that is why I would recommend focusing upon sensory experience. I saw your post about looking for an economical retreat center or ashram. I used to have a long list of such places, but I've misplaced it. If I can find it, I'll post it. It will also depend upon where you live concerning what is available. Certain areas of the country have tons of centers and other areas do not. A lot of centers have programs for people on a limited budget. The Southern Dharma Retreat Center in North Carolina used to offer economical retreats for either groups or individuals, and many Zen centers offer scholarship programs for people on tight budgets. Somewhere there is a website that lists hundreds of places, but I can't remember the URL. Maybe someone on this board will post it for you. Cheers. Look at that!! Offering ATA before it was labeled ATA. hahaha. Go 2009!
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 4, 2013 21:01:56 GMT -5
Greetings..
I don't 'want' anything.. i appreciate clarity, so i aspire to greater clarity for myself and others, not because i 'want' it, but because it actually works.. clarity is the natural catalyst between 'me' and 'That which I AM'.. i aspire to greater clarity because anything else is self-deception..
Be well..
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Post by onehandclapping on Aug 5, 2013 0:20:23 GMT -5
Greetings.. I don't 'want' anything.. i appreciate clarity, so i aspire to greater clarity for myself and others, not because i 'want' it, but because it actually works.. clarity is the natural catalyst between 'me' and 'That which I AM'.. i aspire to greater clarity because anything else is self-deception.. Be well.. Were you responding to someone or just wanted to share? I'm trying to tie in what you said with the conversation....or my post... And neither seem to ask you anything.....
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Post by tzujanli on Aug 5, 2013 0:26:08 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I don't 'want' anything.. i appreciate clarity, so i aspire to greater clarity for myself and others, not because i 'want' it, but because it actually works.. clarity is the natural catalyst between 'me' and 'That which I AM'.. i aspire to greater clarity because anything else is self-deception.. Be well.. Were you responding to someone or just wanted to share? I'm trying to tie in what you said with the conversation....or my post... And neither seem to ask you anything..... Did you notice the title of the thread? Be well..
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Post by onehandclapping on Aug 5, 2013 0:36:42 GMT -5
Greetings.. Were you responding to someone or just wanted to share? I'm trying to tie in what you said with the conversation....or my post... And neither seem to ask you anything..... Did you notice the title of the thread? Be well.. See now it makes sense! Thanks for clearing that up. I hadn't read that entire thread. I was just digging through old stuff and saw ZD's old post and figured I would comment.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 11:31:04 GMT -5
I want to walk on water. I want to be super beautiful. I want to be super wise. I want to live forever.
let me think...
I want a cigarette.
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Post by onehandclapping on Aug 5, 2013 11:56:12 GMT -5
I want to walk on water. I want to be super beautiful. I want to be super wise. I want to live forever. let me think... I want a cigarette. Technically you walk on water all the time, there's just rock and dirt between you and the water. Beauty is such a subjective thing that you already qualify somewhere at this moment to someone as super beautiful, just ask around. "You" are super wise. Matter is neither created not destroyed so you are in luck! Eternal life bi-otches!!! I'll take a cigar if ya got one......
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 12:49:52 GMT -5
Sorry don't want rocks and dirt under my feet.
Do you have the solution?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 12:58:19 GMT -5
I want to walk on water. I want to be super beautiful. I want to be super wise. I want to live forever. let me think... I want a cigarette. Welcome back freejoy. How's it going?
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