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Post by jamesanderson on Mar 21, 2012 21:46:06 GMT -5
There is ONLY experience!
Body moves without a mover. Thoughts arise without a thinker. Attention attends without an attendant.
All of the above arise as aspects of experience, and "you" are the sum total of present moment experience. There is nothing else! There never has been!
This is the moment to moment EXPERIENCE of non duality.
It is not a conceptual understanding. It is the experienctial reality of being, free from deluded concepts.
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Post by enigma on Mar 21, 2012 22:19:57 GMT -5
Yes, akchuly.
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Post by Beingist on Mar 21, 2012 22:25:38 GMT -5
There is ONLY experience! Body moves without a mover. Thoughts arise without a thinker. Attention attends without an attendant. All of the above arise as aspects of experience, and "you" are the sum total of present moment experience. There is nothing else! There never has been! This is the moment to moment EXPERIENCE of non duality. It is not a conceptual understanding. It is the experienctial reality of being, free from deluded concepts. ... all of which is conceptual.
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Post by therealfake on Mar 21, 2012 23:06:58 GMT -5
There is ONLY experience! Body moves without a mover. Thoughts arise without a thinker. Attention attends without an attendant. All of the above arise as aspects of experience, and "you" are the sum total of present moment experience. There is nothing else! There never has been! This is the moment to moment EXPERIENCE of non duality. It is not a conceptual understanding. It is the experienctial reality of being, free from deluded concepts. Yes, there is Experience but no Experiencer... ;D
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Post by frankshank on Mar 22, 2012 5:47:39 GMT -5
That was very clear and I resonated with it.
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Post by zentatsu on Mar 22, 2012 6:43:19 GMT -5
There is ONLY experience! So there are no realizations outside experience?
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Post by zendancer on Mar 22, 2012 6:44:16 GMT -5
There is ONLY experience! Body moves without a mover. Thoughts arise without a thinker. Attention attends without an attendant. All of the above arise as aspects of experience, and "you" are the sum total of present moment experience. There is nothing else! There never has been! This is the moment to moment EXPERIENCE of non duality. It is not a conceptual understanding. It is the experienctial reality of being, free from deluded concepts. Very well stated.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 7:28:05 GMT -5
I liked the OP, but I'm a little bit cornfuzed. I've heard experience lauded and experience belittled.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 22, 2012 8:08:54 GMT -5
There is ONLY experience! So there are no realizations outside experience? I suspect that he was not addressing the distinction we often make on this forum between realizations and experience. I suspect that he was using the term "experience" in a more general and inclusive sense. He can clarify that if he wishes to.
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Post by mamza on Mar 22, 2012 14:38:02 GMT -5
I just got a job working at a park, and after driving around the pathways on a little gator with nothing but the scenery and the sound of the engine to entertain me, I wholeheartedly agree with OP.
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Post by therealfake on Mar 22, 2012 17:12:34 GMT -5
There is ONLY experience! So there are no realizations outside experience? I'm guessing that realizations simply 'happen'. Just like there's no experiencer, there is just experience. There's nobody that has a realization, there is just realization.
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Post by jamesanderson on Mar 24, 2012 18:32:44 GMT -5
In regards to realisation, what is it really other than sensory experience, followed by thoughts in relation to the sensory experience, which of course only arise as an aspect of experience?
Can realisation exist without thought. Or to put it another way, when there is no thought, is there realisation in regards to happenings, or simply a continuous flow of experience?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 24, 2012 19:17:37 GMT -5
In regards to realisation, what is it really other than sensory experience, followed by thoughts in relation to the sensory experience, which of course only arise as an aspect of experience? Can realisation exist without thought. Or to put it another way, when there is no thought, is there realisation in regards to happenings, or simply a continuous flow of experience? We have had a little disagreement about exactly what thought is here from time to time. Thought is mostly conceptualization via words. But one can also think in pictures, visualize. I'm sure you've heard, a picture is worth a thousand words. By thought lets say one is conceptualizing, using memory. I'd say that realization is primarily not thinking, non-conceptualizing. However, when we have a realization, we can conceptualize it. Under ordinary circumstances, we rarely live without thought, most of us generally have this roof-brain-chatter going on, the monkey mind. When there is no-thought, we are usually living through either attention or awareness. This is, as you say, a continuous flow of experience. Psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has even called this, Flow. ZD tells the story of the white line, this too is Flow (and, BTW e, it's re-chalking the white line, not painting it). I would say a realization is a coming to understand something about how the universe is actually structured, and our relationship >to that<. It's glimpsing truth. It may leave a trace memory, I would say you almost can't-forget a realization, but it's best not to indulge the memory. It's best come to be able to live in the realization. The two are very different. Sensory experiencing is actually the most simple way to experiencing "Flow" (which may or may not include realization). Much easier than concurrent with thought, emotions or even actions........ sdp
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Post by jamesanderson on Mar 24, 2012 19:32:25 GMT -5
The thing is, when you say that realisation is primarily NOT thinking, then what can it be other than present moment sensory experience? I propose that it only becomes realisation when re thought about, and only exists as realisation while thought about.
I also propose that the change of perception that we refer to as enlightenment is due to the dropping away of conceptualisation, and not realisation, which is only thoughts about temporary experiences.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 24, 2012 20:07:15 GMT -5
The thing is, when you say that realisation is primarily NOT thinking, then what can it be other than present moment sensory experience? I propose that it only becomes realisation when re thought about, and only exists as realisation while thought about. I also propose that the change of perception that we refer to as enlightenment is due to the dropping away of conceptualisation, and not realisation, which is only thoughts about temporary experiences. That's not a bad analysis, but I still disagree. Here's where we have to bring in self-awareness. You're aware right now, but not self-aware. I pretty-much equate self-awareness and self-consciousness. So, you're conscious now, but not self-conscious. I would roughly equate self-consciousness with what Franklin Merrill-Wolff called Consciousness Without an Object. I would say that realization is held in self-consciousness, not in memory as conceptualization. Being conscious of self is having access to all we know of self. This is how realization can be other than present moment sensory experience. We can be aware of what we are thinking, but this is not self-awareness. Self-consciousness (self-awareness) not only encompasses the present moment, it >keeps alive<, (so to speak) all the moments of which we were aware of self, previously. This is different from ordinary memory. IOW, we can be self-conscious with thought, or self-conscious, without thought (Merrill-Wolff's consciousness without an object). This self-consciousness without thought, contains the realization. IOW, the realization doesn't have to be re-thought. Enlightenment is not merely the change of perception.
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