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Post by arisha on Mar 25, 2012 12:48:42 GMT -5
It has already been discussed many times, and you have already said that the realization of Oneness is impossible, in this thread, and in many other threads. You said it yourself or via your fans who tried to help you. When you say ' Oneness is the case now' you know what you mean. I also know what you mean. Please, let me decide by myself, what to surmise, why, and when. Contains confusionBecause you've misunderstood something again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2012 13:46:19 GMT -5
I liked the OP, but I'm a little bit cornfuzed. I've heard experience lauded and experience belittled. So right now there is only experience. <--- "lauded" Experiences of the past or experiences of the future...<--- "belittled"
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Post by enigma on Mar 26, 2012 14:36:04 GMT -5
I liked the OP, but I'm a little bit cornfuzed. I've heard experience lauded and experience belittled. So right now there is only experience. <--- "lauded" Experiences of the past or experiences of the future...<--- "belittled" "All you see and seem Is but a dream within a dream" E.A.Poe Dreams are neither lauded nor belittled, but they can be embraced, cherished and even celebrated. To struggle with a dream, to say that what is, should not be, is the beginning of the nightmare. Dreams are merely illusions. Nightmares are insanity. The distinction is a subtle matter, as the space between heaven and hell is the width of a thought.
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Post by therealfake on Mar 26, 2012 14:56:33 GMT -5
So right now there is only experience. <--- "lauded" Experiences of the past or experiences of the future...<--- "belittled" "All you see and seem Is but a dream within a dream" E.A.Poe Dreams are neither lauded nor belittled, but they can be embraced, cherished and even celebrated. To struggle with a dream, to say that what is, should not be, is the beginning of the nightmare. Dreams are merely illusions. Nightmares are insanity. The distinction is a subtle matter, as the space between heaven and hell is the width of a thought. Is that the dream within a dream Poe was referring to? If so, what is the dream in which that dream is dreamed?
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Post by enigma on Mar 26, 2012 15:24:20 GMT -5
"All you see and seem Is but a dream within a dream" E.A.Poe Dreams are neither lauded nor belittled, but they can be embraced, cherished and even celebrated. To struggle with a dream, to say that what is, should not be, is the beginning of the nightmare. Dreams are merely illusions. Nightmares are insanity. The distinction is a subtle matter, as the space between heaven and hell is the width of a thought. Is that the dream within a dream Poe was referring to? If so, what is the dream in which that dream is dreamed? The dream within the dream is what we think about 'what is'. That's why I don't get into discussions about 'what is' so much.
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Post by jamesanderson on Mar 28, 2012 17:26:22 GMT -5
Just to clarify my earlier point in regards to a couple of replies. When i say that realisation only exists as thought, i mean that literally. Of course, realisation can be the catalyst for a change in perception and experience, but that change is not realisation itself. It's just a pure non conceptual state of being. All that existed, which no longer arises, is conceptual pollution. Even to say it is a dream is a concept. Before thoughts of dreams, there is only experience.
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Post by jamesanderson on Mar 28, 2012 17:31:37 GMT -5
I would say that the important part is not whether it is a dream or not, but the knowing that whether it is a dream, or a projection based on received external stimuli as science says, that you are the sum total of the projection, and not a separate controlling character within it.
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2012 20:18:37 GMT -5
Just to clarify my earlier point in regards to a couple of replies. When i say that realisation only exists as thought, i mean that literally. Of course, realisation can be the catalyst for a change in perception and experience, but that change is not realisation itself. It's just a pure non conceptual state of being. All that existed, which no longer arises, is conceptual pollution. Even to say it is a dream is a concept. Before thoughts of dreams, there is only experience. I'm confused by your clarification. What I know as realization is timeless and devoid of thought until mind moves to conceptualize it. What is "a pure nonconceptual state of being"? Are we still talking about realization? If so, how is that a thought?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 7:55:32 GMT -5
So right now there is only experience. <--- "lauded" Experiences of the past or experiences of the future...<--- "belittled" "All you see and seem Is but a dream within a dream" E.A.Poe Dreams are neither lauded nor belittled, but they can be embraced, cherished and even celebrated. I don't really understand the distinction you are making here between 'lauded' and 'embraced, cherished, and celebrated.' One of the better lessons I've had is turning a nightmare into a dream. The terror of imminent death, being pursued into running off a precipice, feeling the heart leap into the throat, falling..and then thinking calmly "so this is what death is like"... and then the nightmare is gone and has become a flying dream. No joke. It's happened many times.
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Post by enigma on Mar 29, 2012 10:20:54 GMT -5
"All you see and seem Is but a dream within a dream" E.A.Poe Dreams are neither lauded nor belittled, but they can be embraced, cherished and even celebrated. I don't really understand the distinction you are making here between 'lauded' and 'embraced, cherished, and celebrated.' I figured what you meant by lauded was 'verbally praise'. No huge distinction, really.
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Post by therealfake on Mar 29, 2012 15:43:01 GMT -5
"All you see and seem Is but a dream within a dream" E.A.Poe Dreams are neither lauded nor belittled, but they can be embraced, cherished and even celebrated. I don't really understand the distinction you are making here between 'lauded' and 'embraced, cherished, and celebrated.' One of the better lessons I've had is turning a nightmare into a dream. The terror of imminent death, being pursued into running off a precipice, feeling the heart leap into the throat, falling..and then thinking calmly "so this is what death is like"... and then the nightmare is gone and has become a flying dream. No joke. It's happened many times. Yeah, cool. I would only add that there seems to be an underlying knowing that you can't really die in a dream. No matter how many times I've hit the ground after jumping off a cliff, or have been crushed, or nuked, or drowned, or shot, I just can't die...hehe
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Post by jamesanderson on Mar 31, 2012 15:07:32 GMT -5
Hi Enigma. What i mean is, the state that you refer to as timeless and devoid of thought is our natural state of being, when all concepts are dropped.
The term realisation refers to realising something. Realising is only ever done conceptually, as thought. Realisation can be the catalyst for letting go, which results in the state of non duality that you refer to, but realisation and that state of abiding are two different things. One conceptual and one free from concepts.
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Post by enigma on Mar 31, 2012 18:12:35 GMT -5
Hi Enigma. What i mean is, the state that you refer to as timeless and devoid of thought is our natural state of being, when all concepts are dropped. The term realisation refers to realising something. Realising is only ever done conceptually, as thought. Realisation can be the catalyst for letting go, which results in the state of non duality that you refer to, but realisation and that state of abiding are two different things. One conceptual and one free from concepts. From 'inside' thought, realization appears to be thought, but it's actually timeless, and the thought is the conceptualization of this non-temporal realization. A clue to this is the stereotypical 'AHA!' moment. If one is able to observe what is occurring, it can be noticed that what was seen really was realized in it's wholeness in a timeless moment, precisely because it is not thought, not conceptual. It might also be noticed that there is a pause between the AHA! and the conceptual understanding of what that AHA! really is. Mind has to conceptualize it. Further, I would say that the realization, in this context, is not the realization of something, but rather the collapse of an idea; an expansion of awareness that reveals the boundaries of thought and assumption.. Clarity isn't actually conceptual, although it can be conceptualized.
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Post by runstill on Mar 31, 2012 22:07:30 GMT -5
Hi Enigma. What i mean is, the state that you refer to as timeless and devoid of thought is our natural state of being, when all concepts are dropped. The term realisation refers to realising something. Realising is only ever done conceptually, as thought. Realisation can be the catalyst for letting go, which results in the state of non duality that you refer to, but realisation and that state of abiding are two different things. One conceptual and one free from concepts. From 'inside' thought, realization appears to be thought, but it's actually timeless, and the thought is the conceptualization of this non-temporal realization. A clue to this is the stereotypical 'AHA!' moment. If one is able to observe what is occurring, it can be noticed that what was seen really was realized in it's wholeness in a timeless moment, precisely because it is not thought, not conceptual. It might also be noticed that there is a pause between the AHA! and the conceptual understanding of what that AHA! really is. Mind has to conceptualize it. Further, I would say that the realization, in this context, is not the realization of something, but rather the collapse of an idea; an expansion of awareness that reveals the boundaries of thought and assumption.. Clarity isn't actually conceptual, although it can be conceptualized. This is really very good from both of you. I understand what is being explained and getting affirmation and clarity for my own experience.
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Post by Beingist on Mar 31, 2012 22:15:38 GMT -5
Clarity isn't actually conceptual, although it can be conceptualized. This actually answers quite directly the OP to the "why discuss oneness" thread.
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