|
Post by lolly on Jan 11, 2012 7:02:53 GMT -5
This 'teachers' forum is one where all answers are known, so it's time for me to come and say, no answers. Since the forum has degenerated into a gossip thread about enigma and an endorsement of Andrews recent creation obsession, I'm inclined to draw attention toward the essence of spirtitual life. I spent a lot of time at a real life ashram, serving the students and going on retreat, so I know well how clandestine ashrams are, and why they degenerate to tit for tats (tit being my personal preferance) such as discussions about personages. I already know the standard lines like 'all practices have to dropped eventually' and the other things people say to put themselves at the very pinacle above and beyond everyone and everything else, so don't bother with that mish now... just go back to your own particular inquiry process without furthur consideration to its refinement. This environment of the cyber ashram is a cave where stale ideas can be repetitively expressed, sames as real world ashrams, while the refinement of the inquiry process goes ignored. Ya, remember refinement. The futility now with which I speak lies in the knowing of answers, as ones read the title and already have ideas churning, already formulating their idea which they have also expressed before, and already poised with the answer they know... Would it be possible for these collective minds to regain their composure, recall their purpose, muster some sincerity and forgo every thing they think they know and become truely responsive for the sake of making the most subtle refinements to understandings of the inquiry process? Sounds like you are trying to get something from us and yet know we have nothing to give ya. Is there really a way to become more responsive?? How do we go about doing that in your mind Lolly?? When I read the members insights on the inquiry process, I can be inspired by an idea which hadn't occured to me, so it's a store of ideas I can recall and apply to a wider variety of circumstances. Collectively, the ideas make up a broad range, because they are not disconnected. They meld into a single flux which enhances flexibilty. The contracicrions which occur force a situation where the idea which has no place withing the overall scope needs to abandoned as it is recognized as futile. Because the entirety of it applies to a wide range of individuals while retaining universal integrity, it refines the understanding of the overall process.
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Jan 11, 2012 7:33:55 GMT -5
Would it be possible for these collective minds to regain their composure, recall their purpose, muster some sincerity and forgo every thing they think they know and become truely responsive for the sake of making the most subtle refinements to understandings of the inquiry process? I have a question for you, lolly. Or anyone else. It's about this "refinement" of the inquiry process. I've done a lot of meditation. There was a point - maybe about 6 months ago - where an image came to me of pruning a long long bush and glancing over to where I had begun my pruning to see that the bush was growing back. That was pretty much how I felt about inquiry at that point. Insights had come, attachments had fallen away and then.......new attachments formed, new confusions appeared. It felt like an endless, pointless task. Inquiry is in essence observation. Discussion defines a point of focus. A member speaks, which moves the attention to the internal object which is observed... or seen to be absent. This comes in two forms. The first directs attention to a reactive tendancy which causes mental agitation, so you become conscious of a futile behaviour, and being conscious of it, recognize it immediately the next time it occurs. The second is requesting you look to see if something is there at all, because sometimes we hold a false notion of self. It's like someone told you there's a chair in a room, but now you are asked to open the door and look for yourself, to find there was no chair there after all. Meditation is not widely understood. Most use it in persuit of pleasurable experience, which is fine, but fundamentally ineffective. Inquiry gains one no knowledge. It is the removal of false obstacles, enabling the flowering of love.
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Jan 11, 2012 7:36:54 GMT -5
I really think we might know each other from another forum. I go by the same name on the other forum so I guess you would know more certainly than me whether we have met. Personally, I tend to endorse a simple meditation practice. Please describe it. That would be most beneficial.
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Jan 11, 2012 7:40:30 GMT -5
Sounds like you are trying to get something from us and yet know we have nothing to give ya. Is there really a way to become more responsive?? How do we go about doing that in your mind Lolly?? I could be wrong, but it sounds like Lolly doesn't want anything from us or an offering of a taste of that would have been appropriate, just to get the ball rolling. It looks like he wants us to shape up and fly right. Thing is, I basically agree with that sentiment, but I'm getting a bit cynical in my old age and I know that what spiritual peeps do is spin without ever really going anywhere. They spin whatever stories they're living out, and they like those stories or they would trade them in for new ones. There are a million stories in the naked city, and this is one of them. They're all wrong. Great, I love cynical.
|
|
|
Post by gypsywind on Jan 11, 2012 8:15:39 GMT -5
"Thing is, I basically agree with that sentiment, but I'm getting a bit cynical in my old age and I know that what spiritual peeps do is spin without ever really going anywhere." Enigma, this is what I see all around me with the meditation group (including myself) and exactly what I don't want to keep doing. But I also don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Seems like giving up all practices and just living the life I find myself in (Fox news blaring in the house, drama drama everywhere - you get the picture) is not the answer either. Didn't work out so well before I stumbled onto these teachings. Tathagata - thank you. Yes, at first meditation did involve a lot of uprooting of psychological stuff. Maybe you're right, that was the whack-a-mole thing. I've watched the 'physics' of thought for years. I get it. I know, deep down, the ephemeral nature of thoughts and have seen where I believed them. The magic trick has been exposed and the magician has no more credibility. Well, meditation meets today. Maybe I'll inquire what it is I'm actually asking here. quinn A long time ago on another website I ran into a non-dual type who would always tell me- Ask questions, ignore answers. So, I'm stumbling around the internet one day, and ran across the link below. Upon reading it, I realized the non-dual dude from another website expressed it in a way which was much too linear. The tail was wagging the dog. Anyway, it was quite a relief to see it in a different way. For what it's worth.. www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/answer_adyashanti.htm
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Jan 11, 2012 8:24:06 GMT -5
So... my responses are one thing and my inspirations are another.
My inspiration is, one observes... observation is awareness happening so there's no choice involved, it is what is happening.
The inquiry is curiosity as to what's happening.
This curiosity isn't looking for something, it isn't searching, it's just an intention to see what's there. There isn't actually a notion of self involved in it at all, it isn't searching for a self... it's just looking at what's there and continuing to look... not as one would explore exactly... merely observing what happens to arize into conscious awareness... just seeing what happens.
One can't see what isn't currently in awareness, so there is no search, only seeing what is as it happens to unfold.
So far that remains idealistic and gives no consideration to the human condition, but in reality you find itches or painful sensations, which give rize to the 'I thoughts' that occur as adverse reactivity and notice it disturbs the calm
So too do really pleasent experiences occur, and one notices the 'I thoughts' which begin to cling as you feel the reluctance to allow it to pass.
It doesn't matter that that occurs, it is seen to happen, so no denial exists, you merely became conscious of it as it happened and continue to watch... not wilfully nor volitionally... because watching is what is happening.
Soon enough you simply lose interest in the 'I thoughts' of avoidance and clinging. If they happen you recognize them as disruptive and futile, as it just continues to pass anyway.
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Jan 11, 2012 8:28:36 GMT -5
Double post.
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jan 11, 2012 8:34:52 GMT -5
I really think we might know each other from another forum. I go by the same name on the other forum so I guess you would know more certainly than me whether we have met. Personally, I tend to endorse a simple meditation practice. Please describe it. That would be most beneficial. Anything without too many processes. Observe breath is good. Focus on 3rd eye can be good.
|
|
|
Post by onehandclapping on Jan 11, 2012 9:25:29 GMT -5
You lost me lolly. You go off into this complex trapez of words and notions. Come back to earth and speak simple English for this dummie. What is it that you want done differently on here? Or is this just a platform thread to preform upon?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2012 11:40:56 GMT -5
So... my responses are one thing and my inspirations are another. My inspiration is, one observes... observation is awareness happening so there's no choice involved, it is what is happening. The inquiry is curiosity as to what's happening. This curiosity isn't looking for something, it isn't searching, it's just an intention to see what's there. There isn't actually a notion of self involved in it at all, it isn't searching for a self... it's just looking at what's there and continuing to look... not as one would explore exactly... merely observing what happens to arize into conscious awareness... just seeing what happens. One can't see what isn't currently in awareness, so there is no search, only seeing what is as it happens to unfold. So far that remains idealistic and gives no consideration to the human condition, but in reality you find itches or painful sensations, which give rize to the 'I thoughts' that occur as adverse reactivity and notice it disturbs the calm So too do really pleasent experiences occur, and one notices the 'I thoughts' which begin to cling as you feel the reluctance to allow it to pass. It doesn't matter that that occurs, it is seen to happen, so no denial exists, you merely became conscious of it as it happened and continue to watch... not wilfully nor volitionally... because watching is what is happening. Soon enough you simply lose interest in the 'I thoughts' of avoidance and clinging. If they happen you recognize them as disruptive and futile, as it just continues to pass anyway. Nice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2012 11:53:40 GMT -5
There are a million stories in the naked city, and this is one of them. They're all wrong. I like this too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2012 12:50:55 GMT -5
I don't see it that way at all, actually I see the object and the subject are not the same, the object is the seen and the subject is the seer. Lolly, I wanted to bump this since you've recently made an appearance. It's from the subjectivity thread. Can you say anything more about the above quote? it's refreshingly against the grain of the nondual stuff.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 11, 2012 14:58:21 GMT -5
"Thing is, I basically agree with that sentiment, but I'm getting a bit cynical in my old age and I know that what spiritual peeps do is spin without ever really going anywhere." Enigma, this is what I see all around me with the meditation group (including myself) and exactly what I don't want to keep doing. But I also don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Seems like giving up all practices and just living the life I find myself in (Fox news blaring in the house, drama drama everywhere - you get the picture) is not the answer either. Didn't work out so well before I stumbled onto these teachings. Yeah, I understand. I think it's a good focus to always be looking for the boundaries of whatever we're exploring. Every teaching, every thought, has boundaries beyond which it simply isn't so. It may not end the spiritual circus, but it will keep us from getting lost in the house of mirrors.
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2012 15:06:13 GMT -5
It may not end the spiritual circus, but it will keep us from getting lost in the house of mirrors. yeah - you really do understand. Thanks. PS: I fell asleep in meditation today. Hahahahaha!
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2012 15:14:21 GMT -5
quinn A long time ago on another website I ran into a non-dual type who would always tell me- Ask questions, ignore answers. So, I'm stumbling around the internet one day, and ran across the link below. Upon reading it, I realized the non-dual dude from another website expressed it in a way which was much too linear. The tail was wagging the dog. Anyway, it was quite a relief to see it in a different way. For what it's worth.. www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/answer_adyashanti.htmThat was a fine non-answer qypsywind. Appreciate it.
|
|