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Post by chrisd on Jun 10, 2011 4:37:02 GMT -5
Hi, New to these forums, hiya  I live in the Netherlands, I'm 18 years old. I've been actively practicing presence for about a year and a half now as much as I can. I only recently started meditating, a month ago, trying to keep it to at least twice a day. The reason I signed up to this forum is to ask some questions and hopefully get some answers. First I'd like to ask advice on meditation. I've been trying to practice cross legged meditation, first on a bed and now more and more on the ground. I can't hold out very long on the ground right now because my legs aren't used to it but I'm sure that will pass. Thing is, I also feel strain in my lower back, not very heavy though. I was wondering if it has any long term implications if I keep having this pain, what to look out for. My second question is about a meditation experience I've been having. Sometimes when I just keep watching my thoughts and going back to my breath I've been feeling this strong (light?) energy that is really absorbing. When I feel this coming up I try to keep going back to my breath and watching thoughts staying with the energy but it really draws in all my attention. My thoughts go a bit wild, questioning what is going on. Fear comes up, I try to keep my eyes closed but it is strong. Yesterday when it happened I couldn't help but to open my eyes. When I try to remember the world, my body and where I am I get distorted images because the energy is so overwhelming. I remember that teachers like Linda Clair say it is important to have a teacher because they have to remind you of the fact that there is nothing to fear and that it's been done before. Thing is, I don't know any teacher close to me, and I've never read about this particular experience. This is why I'm asking it here because really I don't know where else to ask. I hope my description of my experience was somehow accurate because it is really hard to describe and to remember. I'm hoping someone has read about an experience similar to this before, or experienced it her/himself. Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance |
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Post by zendancer on Jun 10, 2011 5:14:51 GMT -5
Hi, New to these forums, hiya I live in the Netherlands, I'm 18 years old. I've been actively practicing presence for about a year and a half now as much as I can. I only recently started meditating, a month ago, trying to keep it to at least twice a day. The reason I signed up to this forum is to ask some questions and hopefully get some answers. First I'd like to ask advice on meditation. I've been trying to practice cross legged meditation, first on a bed and now more and more on the ground. I can't hold out very long on the ground right now because my legs aren't used to it but I'm sure that will pass. Thing is, I also feel strain in my lower back, not very heavy though. I was wondering if it has any long term implications if I keep having this pain, what to look out for. My second question is about a meditation experience I've been having. Sometimes when I just keep watching my thoughts and going back to my breath I've been feeling this strong (light?) energy that is really absorbing. When I feel this coming up I try to keep going back to my breath and watching thoughts staying with the energy but it really draws in all my attention. My thoughts go a bit wild, questioning what is going on. Fear comes up, I try to keep my eyes closed but it is strong. Yesterday when it happened I couldn't help but to open my eyes. When I try to remember the world, my body and where I am I get distorted images because the energy is so overwhelming. I remember that teachers like Linda Clair say it is important to have a teacher because they have to remind you of the fact that there is nothing to fear and that it's been done before. Thing is, I don't know any teacher close to me, and I've never read about this particular experience. This is why I'm asking it here because really I don't know where else to ask. I hope my description of my experience was somehow accurate because it is really hard to describe and to remember. I'm hoping someone has read about an experience similar to this before, or experienced it her/himself. Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance Hi Chris, Sitting cross-legged certainly enhances attentiveness, but it is not terribly important. If you have lower back pain, I would suggest that you sit on a sofa, so that you have some back support. Most meditation instructors suggest keeping the eyes half-closed and pointed downwards at about a 45 degree angle. You might experiment with this to see if it affects the light and energy you are experiencing. Lots of strange stuff can happen when people start meditating, but I have never heard of the unusual phenomena persisting over a long period of time. Most of it is transient in nature. You might try walking in the woods and just looking an listening as another form of meditation. You can even do your breathing exercises while walking if that is your preference. Is it necessary to have a personal teacher? I don;t think so, and many people have awakened on their own without one. Teachers can point the way, but each individual's experience is different. You might go online and search for groups of people in your area that are interested in meditation and self-realization, and see what you can find. Many years ago I found a group of Zen Buddhists about a hundred miles from where I lived, and I regularly went there and joined them for silent weekend retreats. They brought in teachers periodically, and it was highly educational. Some Christians and Hindus also hold silent retreats, so I would check out those resources also. If you have specific questions, you can contact members of this forum directly via the PM system. |
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Post by chrisd on Jun 10, 2011 9:49:17 GMT -5
It is what I usually do, sitting on a bed or couch, just now and then practicing the sitting on a floor because it increases awareness. I wonder, when people are advanced in meditation do they still feel strain in the lower back? Is it something that will decrease as you get used to positioning yourself better and more stable? I can't fully rely on my thighs yet for support because they are still pretty stiff, I used to play football  How does keeping your eyes half-closed help? Wouldn't the outside world be distracting while meditating? Also the light I was talking about was more of a feeling than an actual seeing, more like in weight. I will definitely try to do this when/ if I feel the energy again, it will probably help with dealing with the fear. You may be right about it being of an inpermanent nature, although for now it just seems to get stronger as I stay with it longer. I never look for it because I've read that wanting just drives you further away from it, it just comes up now and then when I'm concentrating on breath and belly. Walking, listening, looking, I try to do everything with as much awareness as possible. I also don't believe it is absolutely necessary to have a personal teacher, but it would be helpful, especially for dealing with fear. I will search the web later, maybe I will find something useful. Thank you for your advice, it is much appreciated! Also if these questions are too specific, please feel free to remove them. |
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Post by zendancer on Jun 10, 2011 10:36:25 GMT -5
The early Zen teachers in America were hard-core. They insisted that everyone sit in the full lotus position while meditating and maintain total silence and total stillness. It was a matter ofr tradition and they taught their uncompromising approach because that was the way they were taught. Today, most Americans have a more relaxed approach, especially the people who have been meditating for a long time. The most common pain reported is leg pain due to inflexibility. If there is back pain, then it may be that either you are not sitting erectly or there is something peculiar to your body (too much curvature of the lower spine, etc). If I were you, I would experiment and find some position that comfortably supports the back so that you are not in any strain or pain. Sitting in a chair with both feet on the floor is an alternative position that many people use.
I hate to tell you this, but a teacher will not be able to help you with fear. That is something that each person must face alone, and each person is different. Some people experience enormous fear when first meditating, and some people experience very little. One Zen Master wrote that he had to dunk his head in icewater to dispel a frightening apparition that often appeared during his early meditation. Zen folks consider all of the fearful stuff "makyo" (devil world) and they advise students to ignore it because it eventually goes away. It is assumed to be stuff bubbling up from the subconscious and manifesting in myriad weird ways.
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Post by therealfake on Jun 10, 2011 12:58:20 GMT -5
Hi, New to these forums, hiya I live in the Netherlands, I'm 18 years old. I've been actively practicing presence for about a year and a half now as much as I can. I only recently started meditating, a month ago, trying to keep it to at least twice a day. The reason I signed up to this forum is to ask some questions and hopefully get some answers. First I'd like to ask advice on meditation. I've been trying to practice cross legged meditation, first on a bed and now more and more on the ground. I can't hold out very long on the ground right now because my legs aren't used to it but I'm sure that will pass. Thing is, I also feel strain in my lower back, not very heavy though. I was wondering if it has any long term implications if I keep having this pain, what to look out for. My second question is about a meditation experience I've been having. Sometimes when I just keep watching my thoughts and going back to my breath I've been feeling this strong (light?) energy that is really absorbing. When I feel this coming up I try to keep going back to my breath and watching thoughts staying with the energy but it really draws in all my attention. My thoughts go a bit wild, questioning what is going on. Fear comes up, I try to keep my eyes closed but it is strong. Yesterday when it happened I couldn't help but to open my eyes. When I try to remember the world, my body and where I am I get distorted images because the energy is so overwhelming. I remember that teachers like Linda Clair say it is important to have a teacher because they have to remind you of the fact that there is nothing to fear and that it's been done before. Thing is, I don't know any teacher close to me, and I've never read about this particular experience. This is why I'm asking it here because really I don't know where else to ask. I hope my description of my experience was somehow accurate because it is really hard to describe and to remember. I'm hoping someone has read about an experience similar to this before, or experienced it her/himself. Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance Welcome chrisd, Some say that what we are, are beings of ‘light’, so maybe you’re experiencing the manifestation of your true nature. Being aware of the light, you become the light, and awaken to yourself as a light. Kind of like becoming a light unto yourself and realizing your being, your essence and the reality of what it is like to ‘be’ a human being… That’s what some peeps say, but I don’t know… |
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Post by chrisd on Jun 11, 2011 12:15:58 GMT -5
board=misc thread=1498 post=19936 time=1307698622]Hi, Welcome chrisd, Some say that what we are, are beings of ‘light’, so maybe you’re experiencing the manifestation of your true nature. Being aware of the light, you become the light, and awaken to yourself as a light. Kind of like becoming a light unto yourself and realizing your being, your essence and the reality of what it is like to ‘be’ a human being… That’s what some peeps say, but I don’t know… Thank you Who knows eh. You could go into argument as to what do you mean by light as well. It would just be words though. Satisfying short term perhaps but we're all looking for the deeper satisfaction that comes through personal experience in depth. I've read a book from the Dalai Lama about buddhism a week ago. Apparently it was important to the buddhists and others going a similiar path that they understood the true nature. One reglion/school argues that there is a stable atman(?) and another argues that it is always changing. I don't quite see the relevance to understanding this, if in the end like some teachers say you have to let go of everything, even enlightenment or blossoms. The early Zen teachers in America were hard-core. They insisted that everyone sit in the full lotus position while meditating and maintain total silence and total stillness. It was a matter ofr tradition and they taught their uncompromising approach because that was the way they were taught. Today, most Americans have a more relaxed approach, especially the people who have been meditating for a long time. The most common pain reported is leg pain due to inflexibility. If there is back pain, then it may be that either you are not sitting erectly or there is something peculiar to your body (too much curvature of the lower spine, etc). If I were you, I would experiment and find some position that comfortably supports the back so that you are not in any strain or pain. Sitting in a chair with both feet on the floor is an alternative position that many people use. I hate to tell you this, but a teacher will not be able to help you with fear. That is something that each person must face alone, and each person is different. Some people experience enormous fear when first meditating, and some people experience very little. One Zen Master wrote that he had to dunk his head in icewater to dispel a frightening apparition that often appeared during his early meditation. Zen folks consider all of the fearful stuff "makyo" (devil world) and they advise students to ignore it because it eventually goes away. It is assumed to be stuff bubbling up from the subconscious and manifesting in myriad weird ways. I haven't experienced great fear yet except with that energy, only flashes of fear apart from that in daily life. And yes you eventually have to do it all by yourself, face whatever is there yourself. I will do as you say, ignore the fear and I will keep on practicing. I will just keep trying to meditate on the floor now and then, to increase my muscle flexibility and to see if I can learn to stretch my back properly. Thanks again, what you said does help me. |
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Post by vacant on Jun 13, 2011 12:16:28 GMT -5
Hi Chrisd,
Great to have you here.
You ask
I find it helps in different ways:
1- it makes it less easy to fall asleep!
2- The outside world doesn’t have to be taken as distracting. Struggling to cut yourself out of it can be an unnecessary preoccupation, while openness to All (including leg or back discomfort) tend to ease things up.
3- You will find in these pages that Zendancer advises frequently about ATA (attending the actual), meaning attending to what you see, hear, smell etc but without getting involved in naming, identifying, commenting, discerning… while it’s one among many valid ways to go, and by no means exclusive of others, it’s a valuable tool to slow down the merry-go-round of blabbering thoughts.
FWIW and best wishes.
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Post by vacant on Jun 13, 2011 12:34:32 GMT -5
Where I live is under a major pathway for airplanes preparing to land at a nearby international airport. Many people complain about it. I hear them when I (attempt to) meditate. I hear them now. They are part of my physical environment, which I do not wish to resist. It now has turned into some sort of pavlovian reflex in the sense that whenever I notice the sound of an airplane flying over during any life situation, it works as an alarm bell reminder to attend the actual. It’s all good! |
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Post by nickbon on Jun 15, 2011 2:57:21 GMT -5
Hi Chrisd,
Thanks for questions.
It's possible that a yoga class helps with muscles tensing or even massages.
Also, the longer i sat with respect of this body, the more relaxing happened during retreat where there is a motivation to remain still for longer periods than if on your own. Be aware, the pain gets climaxing before relaxation comes.
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iam
New Member
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Post by iam on Jun 15, 2011 5:52:32 GMT -5
Hello chrisd ... I am also new to this forum and also live in the Nederland’s In my experience meditation is the practice In finding a way ...to be in the moment its a sort of remembering a state of being a soft moment that is so familiar too you |
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jazz
Full Member
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Post by jazz on Jun 22, 2011 20:10:32 GMT -5
Hey, I didn't wanna start a new thread so I just took this one, since the question is about meditation. I'm noticing when meditating, that I get in touch with this huge knot in the belly. When I just sit there and relax and just let everything happen, it sorta contracts and starts getting a life of its own. It feels huge and energetic and starts to pull in, so to speak. It's as if I let this knot go, that if I unknotted it, it would be a huge relief. Does anyone have simular experience, and does anyone have the slightest idea what kind of a knot it is. Any suggestions? Thank you |
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Post by enigma on Jun 22, 2011 22:41:27 GMT -5
We spend decades diverting attention from negative feelings. When mind begins to get quiet, either through meditation or a realization, everything that has been ignored sorta floats to the surface and invites you to face it. It feels like a contraction in the body and may seem like a contraction in the mind also, and in body energy terms, I see it as a blockage to the flow. It can be seen as a purification, or you can look at it as a reversal of past emotional suppression. I see it as a necessary process and it's this which keeps folks from being able to remain 'present' or abide in 'non-dual awareness'.
Allow, embrace, surrender, but don't think. You don't need to know anything about the reason. Deal only with the feeling and don't associate anything with it. The mental activity will only feed it and hold it in place, or push it back.
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jazz
Full Member
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Post by jazz on Jun 23, 2011 5:50:28 GMT -5
Thank you E. Allow, embrace, surrender is kinda what I was "doing", but then again, there was a lot of thinking about doing it, so not really not-doing it  In a way I'm happy about the discovering of the knot, because it means I'm getting somewhere, right? Ummm, right I guess I was surprised by the substantiality of it, how big it was and how it just kinda moves on its own. I've got issues!! I've been on this ride now for what, 10 months, and I'm really starting to see that it's not gonna be an easy one. I've been telling myself all this bullshit about how I get it intellectually, soaking up all this information, reading tons of books, so I can have an experience, glimpse of whatever. I don't know, really. I don't know anything. Feels good to say that. And now I'm thinking "why is my life so weird??" Hehe |
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Post by enigma on Jun 23, 2011 11:02:51 GMT -5
In a way I'm happy about the discovering of the knot, because it means I'm getting somewhere, right? Ummm, right Hehe. I was watching Richard Sylvester last night and he was talking about how nothing you do has anything at all to do with awakening, and in a sense it's true, but I see it as one of those careless statements (Like 'everything is perfect' HA!) that lends itself to some serious misunderstandings. The sense in which it's true is that nobody ever gets closer to the Truth since you are already That, so all the looking around is a little like looking for the glasses that are on top of your head. You're never going to find them or get any closer to them by looking around, so we can say all the looking is pointless and can never result in finding. On the other hand, as long as there is the belief that you may have left them on the night stand or in the bathroom, you're unlikely to realize they're on your head, so can we really say that the experience of not finding them in the bathroom has nothing to do with that realization? The way delusion seems to develop in humans is that we develop the capacity to conceptualize ourselves as separate, which brings some bad feelings that we try (and fail) to resolve, so we ignore them, which of course doesn't make them go away. Diverting attention from them becomes a human preoccupation and so the state of humanity is one of hyper busy-ness in an attempt to distract from an unrelenting anxiety about which we may know little or nothing. Almost everybody dies in precisely that condition. In 'serious' spiritual work (Not the process of further distraction in which most seekers are engaged) this process has to be reversed. Everything we ignored has to be faced, which is the spiritual equivalent of sitting on the kitchen floor crying and screaming until we can't cry or scream anymore. If we're looking for more happy distractions in our spiritual search, this is NOT going to happen. When we're done, we're back to where were at two years old when we realized we're separate people and have to fight for what's MINE! MINE! MINE! At this point, we can start honestly questioning that assumption to see if it's really true, because we're no longer playing moronic hide and seek games with ourselves. |
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ifriend
Junior Member
Maitreya The Friend
Posts: 63
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Post by ifriend on Jun 23, 2011 16:29:15 GMT -5
Hi my friend. Yes, it is important to have a Teacher, one who can be with you and who you can call upon in Spirit to guide you ever closer to your own Perfect Union with God. In order to get you there though, the Teacher has to have been there himself. Just as you wouldn't follow a guide to the top of a mountain who had never been there before, you shouldn't follow spiritual teachers who have only book knowledge and have never been in Union with God. Perfect Union with God is the goal of all true meditation, and all true Spiritual Practice, as it is the goal of all existence and being. One thing to remember is that if you meditate only for yourself, you will not get very far. For it is in having Compassion for all beings, and meditating for the sake of the Salvation and Liberation of others, that you will be set free (so long as you don't do it for that purpose.) While I am sure there are many good teachers out there, I know personally of one true teacher who will get you to Perfect Final Union with God, and who, after being in Perfect Final Union with God Twice, made a Vow of compassion that he would never again take his own Perfect Final Union with God until he had seen all souls home before him. So I can only recommend Maitreya The Friend of all Souls from my personal experience. You can find him at www.maitreyathefriend.com - but there is no need to take my word for it. You can see for youself whether he is someone who you can follow. Good luck and may God be with you always. |
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