|
Post by klaus on May 20, 2011 16:02:01 GMT -5
All's I know is that I am aware and it looks like my cat at home is also aware. How do you decide if another being is conscious or aware? Is there any good test? Poke it with a stick.
|
|
|
Post by question on May 20, 2011 18:25:39 GMT -5
I assume that E. was talking about catness in this sense rather than as having experienced catness as a human. If I'm wrong, then he can clarify this. I have COMMUNED with a cat, with flowers, and with much else, but as a human being, I have never experienced the world from the perspective of some other entity. That might be possible (the universe is very weird), but it hasn't happened to this body/mind yet. Oh, thanks for reminding me. I meant to mention that fortunately I don't know what fresh mouse tastes like (hehe) nor do I see through cat eyes. I had no idea I was giving that impression. Every being has a sense of existence as well as a sense of being whatever they are being. The sense of existence is the same. The sense of being enigma or question or zen or cat is different. It's this sense I'm talking about. It's possible to have a sense of what it is like to be anyone on this forum, beyond the words they would use to describe that experience. Likewise, there are no words to describe 'catness'. Thanks for clearing this up. The next challenge is to figure out how the heck it's possible to commune with a tired goalpost and a happy flower.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 20, 2011 20:14:02 GMT -5
Very gently. They have feelings, you know. Hehe.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 20:25:53 GMT -5
here's a cat and owl communing with each other
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 20, 2011 21:22:54 GMT -5
HA! Pretty cool.
|
|
mits
Junior Member
Posts: 92
|
Post by mits on May 21, 2011 15:08:41 GMT -5
Isn't "Enlightenment" essentially the search for happiness?
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on May 21, 2011 15:15:23 GMT -5
I think everyone is talking at cross purposes here. I think I understand where E. is coming from and I definitely understand where Q. and TRF are coming from. I'm big on both experiences and realizations because they both have frequently picked this body/mind to arise within. One of my first major realizations occurred as a result of my first kensho experience. I saw that the entire universe was alive and also unified. From that point on I never again imagined that there were such things as INanimate objects. The whole blooming thing is alive, Igor; it's alive! LOL. Yes, I look around and see rocks, automobiles, and electric utility poles, and I accept the conventional distinction of "inanimateness," but I simultaneously know that the distinction is an illusion--an appearance, only. If I tell peeps that even rocks, stars, and empty space is alive, they will look at me as if I am nuts, and this is why I only say such things to people who might be driven to a deeper level of exerience and understanding by the seeming insaneness of such a comment. This is what Master Rinzai was doing to one of his students after a polo game when he asked, "Were even the goalposts tired?" The student knew that he (as a participant in the game) was tired, and he knew that the horses were tired, but the goalposts? That question paralyzed his mind, and that night he had a major breakthrough. The following day he returned to Rinzai and said with great authority, "Yes, even the goalposts were tired!" I assume that E. was talking about catness in this sense rather than as having experienced catness as a human. If I'm wrong, then he can clarify this. I have COMMUNED with a cat, with flowers, and with much else, but as a human being, I have never experienced the world from the perspective of some other entity. That might be possible (the universe is very weird), but it hasn't happened to this body/mind yet. The headache/pain remedy thing he mentioned is commonly taught in pain management classes at hospitals, so I don't know what the problem is with that issue. I would never expect anyone to take my word that the universe is unified and alive, but I try to point peeps in a direction that might lead to the same kind of experience that I had. I tell them to ATA, and as they escape the confines of the thought machine, unusual stuff often happens. The truth is unimaginably mysterious. he he Ya thanks from me too... I'd hate to see Enigma get banned from another forum... ;D
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 21, 2011 16:11:56 GMT -5
Isn't "Enlightenment" essentially the search for happiness? I assume you mean 'the search for enlightenment'? Yeah, that's what the seeker is looking for, though if he really knew what he was looking for he wouldn't be looking for it. Partly because he would already know what 'it' was, and also because 'it' doesn't include the seeker. So the whole seeking process is a kind of delusion that 'I'm going to find happiness'. While the seeker is seeking a permanent state of happiness, which is an oxymoron, what is actually found is nondualistic Peace, which is more betterer than happiness because there isn't an opposite end of the stick to whack yourself with. As such, the criteria for Peace is not to be happy all the time.
|
|
|
Post by Portto on May 21, 2011 16:49:58 GMT -5
So you're saying that when you align with a cat's consciousness you're simultaneously looking out of specifically your eyes and specifically the cat's eyes? You actually understand cat language and you know and love how fresh mouse and bird meat tastes like? Almost every time when I hike in the woods, and sometimes when I relax, I get intense short experiences of being another creature. I experienced dozens of animals, from hawks and bears to ladybugs and worm inside an apple. All feelings are intimate and direct, without being mediated by words/thinking. I feel curiosity, hunger, fear, playfulness. I even experienced being eaten as a deer, which I didn’t particularly enjoy. It’s actually starting to be annoying, because my mind doesn’t know what to make of these experiences. I hope they will eventually go away.
|
|
|
Post by Portto on May 21, 2011 16:50:32 GMT -5
How do you decide if another being is conscious or aware? Is there any good test? Poke it with a stick. Would you poke Buddha with a stick?
|
|
|
Post by klaus on May 21, 2011 20:21:38 GMT -5
Would you poke Buddha with a stick? Only if you can find Buddha.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 21, 2011 21:23:48 GMT -5
what I hear is if you find him on the road, poke him with stick!
|
|
|
Post by klaus on May 21, 2011 23:35:36 GMT -5
The Bursting Buddha.
*poke*
|
|
|
Post by therealfake on May 22, 2011 17:39:46 GMT -5
If you think you've found the Buddha on the road, you should poke yourself... ;D
|
|
|
Post by teetown on May 22, 2011 19:48:42 GMT -5
Like you said, awareness and consciousness are products of the brain. So I could set up a lab and ask volunteers to come in and have the top of their heads removed to see if there was anything in there. If there’s nothing in there, there’s a good chance they are not aware or conscious. It’s kind of messy though. Not sure about plants and trees though, someone could surely come up with something… From what I can see here, the individual isn't aware. You ARE aware, but TRF isn't aware, because you're not TRF. TRF can't even see you. But YOU can see both the kitty and TRF.
|
|