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Post by teknix on Mar 16, 2011 11:54:26 GMT -5
You can put as much hocus pocus into it as you want, but if your mind isn't still you won't feel it.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2011 12:05:27 GMT -5
At the sub-atomic level we are all basically energy, or vibrating strings that may or may not be connected through dimensions. Even the spilled soda is made of the same stuff. I just had this discussion a few minutes ago with a lady who lost a loved one: " The loss of the relationship with those close to us is cause for genuine grief, and this is to be felt deeply and completely so that it might be embraced and accepted fully for what it is and not clung to in the mind and heart as something that should not be, and expressed in the body as more suffering and dis-ease. All of life is fragile and transitory, and though you ARE that life, you also remain as the silent witness of life, and this is permanent and unchanging. This is your solid foundation from which all such losses can be viewed with equanimity; your courage tempered by that solidity." I'm glad you pointed this out. Many people don't get this. To embrace "what is" is to feel everything fully, without resistance.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2011 12:22:50 GMT -5
Oh, so there isn't an existence? No, existence is imaginary; it is a distinction just like "universe," "human being," or "energy." Existence (which means "to come forth from") is conjured by the mind from "what is." "What is" is without form or void until separateness is imagined. If you look without reflection, and continue looking without reflection, eventually the structures of thought supporting the idea of existence will collapse, and you will realize what the above words are pointing to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2011 13:00:28 GMT -5
zd,
i know there is no answer to this but when you say "eventually" in terms of looking without reflection are we talking eons or minutes? LOL!
just had to ask it because frustratedwanter inhabits mind
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Post by teknix on Mar 16, 2011 13:46:21 GMT -5
Oh, so there isn't an existence? No, existence is imaginary; it is a distinction just like "universe," "human being," or "energy." Existence (which means "to come forth from") is conjured by the mind from "what is." "What is" is without form or void until separateness is imagined. If you look without reflection, and continue looking without reflection, eventually the structures of thought supporting the idea of existence will collapse, and you will realize what the above words are pointing to. If there was no existence, there would not be much a point in eating or drinking.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2011 13:49:37 GMT -5
zd, i know there is no answer to this but when you say "eventually" in terms of looking without reflection are we talking eons or minutes? LOL! just had to ask it because frustratedwanter inhabits mind Nis did it in three years, but he was a simple man and had deep faith in his teacher. When his teacher told him to focus on the "I AM," he put his attention there in every spare moment he had. Most of us aren't willing to focus on the present moment and become deeply committed to looking at "what is" until we've exhausted every strategy the mind can think up. For some of us that takes a long time. LOL. I would guess that someone who spent 4-5 hours per day focused intensely upon "what is" or the I AM" could wake up in one or two years. The younger someone is and the less intellectual the person is the faster it would probably happen. What we're really talking about is leaving the mind behind in favor of attending the actual. After realization, such intense committment is not necessary because freedom from the mind has been attained. Then, the phrase from the Diamond Sutra fully applies--"without hindrance the mind is allowed to function freely." Thoughts occur, but there is no longer any attachment to them.
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Post by mamza on Mar 16, 2011 13:57:01 GMT -5
No, existence is imaginary; it is a distinction just like "universe," "human being," or "energy." Existence (which means "to come forth from") is conjured by the mind from "what is." "What is" is without form or void until separateness is imagined. If you look without reflection, and continue looking without reflection, eventually the structures of thought supporting the idea of existence will collapse, and you will realize what the above words are pointing to. If there was no existence, there would not be much a point in eating or drinking. There's not much point to anything. The only point behind anything is the one you imagine is there. That doesn't mean you should starve yourself to death!
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Post by mamza on Mar 16, 2011 14:02:08 GMT -5
I'm not too worried about what stuff is made of. I'm only interested in what I am. What I am is not sub-atomic particles, because sub-atomic particles only exist if there's existence to exist in. To say that sub-atomic particles come before existence is ridiculous--if there's no such thing as existence, there's no way anything, much less particles, could exist. That's some pretty good clarity from one looking for clarity. Maybe, but there's something that wants that clarity to remain regardless of anything happening. Which, to me, means there's not enough clarity. The problem is that I still believe there's a me to get the clarity, and clarity to be had. I can't get rid of this two-ness because there's no two-ness to get rid of! LOL. It drives me nuts that I can understand that but not see it.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2011 14:05:32 GMT -5
No, existence is imaginary; it is a distinction just like "universe," "human being," or "energy." Existence (which means "to come forth from") is conjured by the mind from "what is." "What is" is without form or void until separateness is imagined. If you look without reflection, and continue looking without reflection, eventually the structures of thought supporting the idea of existence will collapse, and you will realize what the above words are pointing to. If there was no existence, there would not be much a point in eating or drinking. Ha Ha! "What is" is what eats and drinks and thinks it is Teknix. As soon as "what is" realizes that it has played a joke on itself, both Teknix and the idea of existence will vanish.
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 16, 2011 14:06:24 GMT -5
There's not much point to anything. The only point behind anything is the one you imagine is there. That doesn't mean you should starve yourself to death! True but does not help a bit unless you truly realize what you posted. Most people get it intellectually and then make the big mistake that they have awaken. michael
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Post by teknix on Mar 16, 2011 14:16:43 GMT -5
Theres nothing to intellectualize you dorks.
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Post by teknix on Mar 16, 2011 14:18:02 GMT -5
Zen, please tell me what you are pointing to?
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2p0p
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Post by 2p0p on Mar 16, 2011 14:44:10 GMT -5
Mamza wrote "The problem is that I still believe there's a me to get the clarity, and clarity to be had. I can't get rid of this two-ness because there's no two-ness to get rid of! LOL. It drives me nuts that I can understand that but not see it."
Maybe you are 'you'...maybe you are a little bit/part/one with god/oneness...maybe the rest/two-ness is just damage...can you remember when you were whole...maybe when you were 7 or maybe even younger, i bet you were clear then .
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Post by mamza on Mar 16, 2011 14:49:05 GMT -5
Nope. I don't remember too much, but I'm pretty sure I've always been 'whole.' I just don't realize it. There is no part of me that feels like it disappeared between a young age and now--I feel the same way I always have. The body has changed, the mind has grown.... but what I refer to as the real 'me' has never changed.
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2p0p
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Post by 2p0p on Mar 16, 2011 15:07:08 GMT -5
yeah, ok...every 'one' is different-even in one-ness (the paradox again); for me i remember being 'clear' in my sandpit at the age of 3 or 4...i was completely content...the idea of needing anything was absent...the idea that i did need something came later.
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