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Post by mamza on Mar 15, 2011 1:01:41 GMT -5
How am I the spilled soda? As an object appearing before me, it cannot be me.
A blank canvas is a blank canvas. The flower painted on it is not the canvas. The canvas holds the appearance of the flower and continues to be the canvas regardless of what paintings are put on it. It is not the flower, but the flower is part of it.
Is this how I'm the soda? It is not me, but I am it. Or is it, "I am not it, but it is me?"
Sorry if this seems convoluted... focus and clarity have been absent for a little while now. Too caught up in the junk to get any real effort put out.
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Post by enigma on Mar 15, 2011 2:06:04 GMT -5
As an analogy, the objects in your nightly dreams appear before you, and while dreaming you insist that they cannot be you, and yet when you awaken in the morning, you realize that all the dream objects originated in your own mind. Since most folks believe they ARE their mind, this means that the objects in your dream ARE you. What appears to you in your dream is actually you appearing as those appearances, right?
It's just an analogy, but it points to to the same thing in the larger context. You are the object that appears to you. It never leaves the awareness that you are.
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Post by mamza on Mar 15, 2011 11:32:30 GMT -5
Ah, I see. So what's the dilly-o with people saying 'you are not the body/mind/etc.'? Wouldn't all those be objects appearing before the thing that I am? Is that just to kickstart the process or something?
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2011 1:05:16 GMT -5
Ah, I see. So what's the dilly-o with people saying 'you are not the body/mind/etc.'? Wouldn't all those be objects appearing before the thing that I am? Is that just to kickstart the process or something? Yes, it's just a kickstart. What you are is what we might call "the field of all being." That field is unified, formless, infinite, intelligent, aware, and unchanging. It can imagine, but whatever things it imagines are imaginary. When it imagines that it is looking, the imagined observer and the imagined observed are imaginary, so whatever it sees is itself. When imagination ceases, only the unimaginable truth remains. The truth cannot be known; it can only be. Who you are is THAT.
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Post by enigma on Mar 16, 2011 1:10:42 GMT -5
Yeah.....what he said. To identify yourself as exclusively one of the objects appearing to you is not the same as realizing you are all appearances and that which is aware of appearances. (form and formlessness)
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Post by mamza on Mar 16, 2011 10:47:00 GMT -5
It seems like every time things get clearer, I suddenly start getting caught up in junk and lose all ability to focus on this stuff. We've probably had this discussion at least a good three times already, but for some reason I'm stuck on it. It's really not all that difficult to see through identification with the body, but it only happens in little gaps. I see it, I do whatever without it until gradually identification falls back into place.
I'm a 7 year old kid peeking over the couch to see the R rated movie when my parents aren't looking. Then I see how boring it is and just play with my imagination the rest of the day. Frustrating! Too many distractions and attachments.
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Post by therealfake on Mar 16, 2011 10:47:46 GMT -5
Yeah.....what he said. To identify yourself as exclusively one of the objects appearing to you is not the same as realizing you are all appearances and that which is aware of appearances. (form and formlessness) That implies that whatever I see is God or the eternal, because I am the eternal... I see a bird, I am seeing God, a tree, I am seeing God, any inanimate object, is God... My puppy pooped on the floor last night, that smelly poop I cleaned up is God... Right?
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Post by teknix on Mar 16, 2011 10:48:41 GMT -5
At the sub-atomic level we are all basically energy, or vibrating strings that may or may not be connected through dimensions. Even the spilled soda is made of the same stuff.
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Post by mamza on Mar 16, 2011 10:53:28 GMT -5
I'm not too worried about what stuff is made of. I'm only interested in what I am. What I am is not sub-atomic particles, because sub-atomic particles only exist if there's existence to exist in. To say that sub-atomic particles come before existence is ridiculous--if there's no such thing as existence, there's no way anything, much less particles, could exist.
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Post by teknix on Mar 16, 2011 11:00:57 GMT -5
Oh, so there isn't an existence?
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Post by mamza on Mar 16, 2011 11:14:47 GMT -5
I never said that. I can see how you might think I said that, but I assure you I didn't. Just trying to say that anything I can know is not what I am. Particles and existence are both something I know about.
In order to know what I am, I would have to be able to see myself. Having someone tell me that I'm such and such just won't do because who knows if they're lying? Maybe a mirror could show me a reflection of the body, but is that really me? I cannot look at myself directly, therefore I cannot know what it is I am. If I can't know what I am, and I'm aware of particles, existence, etc., I couldn't be it.
Hope that clarifies.
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Post by enigma on Mar 16, 2011 11:29:59 GMT -5
Yeah.....what he said. To identify yourself as exclusively one of the objects appearing to you is not the same as realizing you are all appearances and that which is aware of appearances. (form and formlessness) That implies that whatever I see is God or the eternal, because I am the eternal... I see a bird, I am seeing God, a tree, I am seeing God, any inanimate object, is God... My puppy pooped on the floor last night, that smelly poop I cleaned up is God... Right? I like to say 'God Godding'. ('God pooping' works.)
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Post by enigma on Mar 16, 2011 11:36:01 GMT -5
At the sub-atomic level we are all basically energy, or vibrating strings that may or may not be connected through dimensions. Even the spilled soda is made of the same stuff. I just had this discussion a few minutes ago with a lady who lost a loved one: "Whatever comes and goes isn't the ultimate truth of yourself, because it's coming and going to you. You watch it come and go so you can't be that. Your body, your memory, your sense of self and even your consciousness come and go and change in your presence. You are aware of all of this. It doesn't mean anything that we are somehow energy and energy can't be destroyed. It's also little comfort to imagine we're all connected somehow in one big oneness soup when the communion that is valued has ended. These are just New Age versions of the religious 'heaven solution'. The loss of the relationship with those close to us is cause for genuine grief, and this is to be felt deeply and completely so that it might be embraced and accepted fully for what it is and not clung to in the mind and heart as something that should not be, and expressed in the body as more suffering and dis-ease. All of life is fragile and transitory, and though you ARE that life, you also remain as the silent witness of life, and this is permanent and unchanging. This is your solid foundation from which all such losses can be viewed with equanimity; your courage tempered by that solidity."
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Post by enigma on Mar 16, 2011 11:40:35 GMT -5
I'm not too worried about what stuff is made of. I'm only interested in what I am. What I am is not sub-atomic particles, because sub-atomic particles only exist if there's existence to exist in. To say that sub-atomic particles come before existence is ridiculous--if there's no such thing as existence, there's no way anything, much less particles, could exist. That's some pretty good clarity from one looking for clarity.
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Post by teknix on Mar 16, 2011 11:52:54 GMT -5
All the strings are vibrating to the same voice.
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