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bubbles
Nov 24, 2011 8:03:14 GMT -5
Post by question on Nov 24, 2011 8:03:14 GMT -5
Ok, so how would a correctly adjusted system play out over say, 10, 20, 30 years ...? In a correctly adjusted system wealth trickles down and we all poop rainbows. Ah, a trick question! You're a woman, which is why you're probably wrong. The correct answer must therefore be 'no'.
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bubbles
Nov 24, 2011 11:20:15 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Nov 24, 2011 11:20:15 GMT -5
Question: I hate to be the one to tell you this, but what many people have called "the trickle-down theory of economics" has been, in reality, "gusher-up economics." The only time during the last thirty years that the gap between rich and poor narrowed in the USA was during three years of the Clinton Administration. Ever since then the gap has been exploding as more and more money gushes to the top. As Warren Buffett has said, "If this is class warfare, then my class is winning the war." LOL. People with high incomes and high net worth often pay far less in taxes, percentagewise, than poor and middle-income folks. For example, I earn more money than my daughter, but I have a much lower tax rate. Go figure.
"The Price of Civilization" by Jeffrey Sachs is, IMO, one of the best books on the market concerning what has happened in the USA and what is continuing to happen. It is not a pretty picture, but as an optimist, I'm hoping that things will improve in the future. Both of our political parties got us into this mess, but unless they start cooperating soon, we will all go over the cliff together. Europe has a similar set of problems, and I doubt that any country will be immune for long from the consequences of current decision-making in the G-8 countries.
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bubbles
Nov 24, 2011 12:14:35 GMT -5
Post by question on Nov 24, 2011 12:14:35 GMT -5
Question: I hate to be the one to tell you this, but what many people have called "the trickle-down theory of economics" has been, in reality, "gusher-up economics." ZD, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but your irony detector seems to be broken.
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bubbles
Nov 25, 2011 9:42:52 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Nov 25, 2011 9:42:52 GMT -5
Question: I hate to be the one to tell you this, but what many people have called "the trickle-down theory of economics" has been, in reality, "gusher-up economics." ZD, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but your irony detector seems to be broken. My bad. Yes, my irony detector was malfunctioning. Sorry.
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 8:48:46 GMT -5
Post by popee2 on Jan 24, 2012 8:48:46 GMT -5
“At times like these, survival is the most important thing,” he says, peering through his owlish glasses and brushing wisps of gray hair off his forehead. He doesn’t just mean it’s time to protect your assets. He means it’s time to stave off disaster. As he sees it, the world faces one of the most dangerous periods of modern history—a period of “evil.” Europe is confronting a descent into chaos and conflict. In America he predicts riots on the streets that will lead to a brutal clampdown that will dramatically curtail civil liberties. The global economic system could even collapse altogether.
“I am not here to cheer you up. The situation is about as serious and difficult as I’ve experienced in my career,” Soros tells Newsweek. “We are facing an extremely difficult time, comparable in many ways to the 1930s, the Great Depression. We are facing now a general retrenchment in the developed world, which threatens to put us in a decade of more stagnation, or worse. The best-case scenario is a deflationary environment. The worst-case scenario is a collapse of the financial system.”
~~~ recent George Soros interview
interesting times indeed ... get your popcorn LOL
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 8:57:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 8:57:53 GMT -5
and he will no doubt make millions as currencies go whacky
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 9:17:43 GMT -5
Post by popee2 on Jan 24, 2012 9:17:43 GMT -5
priced in what? no currency is safe. that's the point. if "confidence" is lost in fiat currencies, there is nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. "paper holdings" only retain value if there is trust between the counter-parties. that "trust" is eroding.
but soros, like david rockefeller, are creepy old rich dudes. I bet they have clone operations underway. lol
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 9:23:13 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 9:23:13 GMT -5
full disclosure: i don't know nuttin!
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 9:34:33 GMT -5
Post by popee2 on Jan 24, 2012 9:34:33 GMT -5
Question - I'm not up to speed on German politics ... when does Merkel come up for election again? What's the mood of the country? Is she likely to win? Any nationalism brewing?
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 13:53:35 GMT -5
Post by question on Jan 24, 2012 13:53:35 GMT -5
Next elections are 2013. Merkel will probably win, but there will be a new coalition, because the FDP is dissolving as we speak (14% in 2009, and now 3%). The new coalition will most likely be with SPD (socialists) or with the green party (unlikely). Neither the government nor the media understands the crisis, which is most tragic, because they parrot Merkel's interpretation and Merkel is thus in power of the media. The opposition has no alternative interpretation. The opposition could force the current government into re-elections, but it won't do them any good, because the SPD will at best end up being an impotent junior partner to the CDU, and it's also very risky because the SPD could lose a lot of ground because Merkel could easily make it look like the SPD is acting irresponsibly in bringing instability during such uncertain times without even having a solid alternative plan.
The only party with a good alternative interpretation is The Left, but they don't stand a chance. They could easily build a coalition with the SPD and the green party, but SPD, for historical reasons, is refusing to cooperate with The Left.
The crisis hasn't hit Germany yet. In light of what is going on in the rest of Europe, the Germans are relieved that they are doing okay so far and they want to keep it that way, but they have a fundamentally flawed understanding of how to keep Europe working. Germany is making its money by producing cheap goods by keeping the wages low, and it is exporting mostly into Europe. The crisis will hit Germany when the exports suffer. The German public thinks that the way to keep Europe working is by punishing those who have too much debt, but they don't understand that it is exactly this extreme cutting of spending that will result in the PIIGS debts being impossible to manage, because it will create a recession out of which PIIGS won't be able to crawl without defaulting.
I think the way to go is to increase German wages, so that the domestic market grows (the gap between rich and poor is increasing, the middle class is saving most of its money) and becomes less reliant on exports, and that at the same time the rest of Europe participates more in the market and becomes more competetive by selling to Germany. At the same time there needs to be more solidarity with the weak Europe so that they can avoid recession and develop a competetive economy. But Merkel is doing the exact opposite.
So the people's sentiment is tilting to the right, if you ask a random person on the streets then he'll probably say something like "The lazy Greeks cheated their way into the Euro, they lived above their means for so many years, why should we bail them out with our hard earned money? Let them suffer so that they learn their lesson!" If the media gets its act together then it could shift to the left and bring about a solidarity, but it's very far away right now, not very realistic.
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 14:07:49 GMT -5
Post by nobodyishome on Jan 24, 2012 14:07:49 GMT -5
I would highly recommend this film. The trailer is below. NBisH
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 14:33:05 GMT -5
Post by popee2 on Jan 24, 2012 14:33:05 GMT -5
well explained Question, many thanks
I love watching this sh!tstorm unfold; this is going to be a very interesting year.
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 15:43:11 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Jan 24, 2012 15:43:11 GMT -5
well explained Question, many thanks I love watching this sh!tstorm unfold; this is going to be a very interesting year. Yep. It's a bit like dancing on running water. LOL. One hedge fund manager (written about in "Boomerang") is buying nickels. He's up to forty million dollars worth now. I, too, got interested (but in a very tiny way). Why? Because it now costs the US mint eleven cents to make a nickel. The price of nickel keeps rising, and a nickel is now worth almost eight cents for the metal value alone. Having been through this sort of thing before, Carol just laughs and calls me "nickel man." I bought an old car on Saturday. The banks were closed, so I gave the seller the option of a check or more than two hundred pounds of nickels. He chose the nickels and said it was a day he'd never forget. LOL Even if the price of nickel falls and the mint doesn't change the composition, it's been fun going through rolls in my spare time. Yesterday I found a 1903 standing liberty nickel in one of the rolls. I had no idea there were any left in circulation. What a hoot!
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 16:03:47 GMT -5
Post by popee2 on Jan 24, 2012 16:03:47 GMT -5
yeah zen, Kyle Bass is the nickle man, he is one smart cookie from Texas
pre-1982 pennies are good too. 95% copper
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bubbles
Jan 24, 2012 16:23:00 GMT -5
Post by Beingist on Jan 24, 2012 16:23:00 GMT -5
Invariably, a thread title makes a song pop up in my head. This one brings on... Tiny bubbles.... in my wine.... Make me happy....make me feel fine...
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