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bubbles
Sept 25, 2012 2:28:41 GMT -5
Post by Peter on Sept 25, 2012 2:28:41 GMT -5
It is rather amusing, isn't it? Even to the point of endearment. Yes, when you go overboard to the extreme, it's hard to take you seriously anymore. Now its all just amusing Yup, it's just SO over the top that it can't be taken seriously, which is why I was suprised to see Stillness apparently taking the bait. But, my friends, there is Work to be done (for those of us still signed up to the idea that there IS anything to be done), so we must say sayonara to the troll and try and move on with our lives as best we can.
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Deleted
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bubbles
Sept 25, 2012 7:51:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 7:51:24 GMT -5
I tend to agree -- the US carries on wars and police actions for 'humanitarian' reasons, spreading democracy, etc. It's a boondoggle. Question is right too -- democracy in the USA is a nice idea that is currently very threatened by these types of ballot shenanigans. The voters that will be disenfranchised by these types of local election process tweaks are almost all non-white.
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 12:55:40 GMT -5
Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jun 14, 2013 12:55:40 GMT -5
Syria is gassing its own population. The Syrian war is a topic which I am very interested in. The majority of Syrians support Assad. Despite all western propaganda, the majority of the western population rejects an armed conflict with Assad. Nobody likes dictators but this war clearly is one where we have to choose the lesser evil, which is Assad. When I used the Syria avatar, I quoted Assad saying that the biggest challenge is how to keep Syria secular. I believe he was not only right but that his insistence on keeping Syria secular is absolutely essential for the stability in the region and for keeping radical Islam from gaining even more strenght in Turkey and thus keeping the islamofascists away from Europe. My analysis is that this is not at all a civil war. For USA it is a proxy war against Iran, which makes it a proxy war against Russia (and maybe against China). For the Saudis/Qatar the immediate goal may be to enable building a pipeline through Syria to Europe, and thus challenging the Russia/Gazprom monopoly, but more importantly the long-term goal is to spread its Sunni ideology of radical Islam and weakening the somewhat moderate Shiite Iran. Israel wants Assad gone because then the Lebanese Hezbollah would be isolated, and without the Hezbollah-Syria-Iran axis Iran would be isolated and Israel could end Iran's nuclear power (and maybe nuclear weapons) ambitions. Iran is a well run country, very educated, its Islam is moderate and controlled, in 10-20 years it could become a superpower and threaten Israel's and the Saudi's dominance in the region. The dominant rebel factions are foreign mercenaries, who are jihadists of the al-Qaeda type. They are paid by the Saudis and Qatar and since the very beginning they have been actively supported by USA. The moderate ones, who believe that they are fighting for democracy and freedom and whatnot (I'm not even convinced that there still are such people there), are in the minority, and in the post-Assad scenario they would have zero chance to form a stable government, instead it would at best be some kind of Muslim Brotherhood government, but most likely Syria would just turn into another Iraq. Assad is a rational leader, his efforts are coordinated with Russia and Iran, he has exactly zero interest in using chemical weapons, and therefore changing the opinion of the western people, and therefore risking an open confrontation with USA/NATO. The jihadists have since the beggining of the war tried to drag Turkey (=NATO) into the conflict with their false flag operations. The "red line" may already have been crossed, but by the rebels/terrorists, not by Assad. Consider Clara del Ponte's (the UN official) claim that she has good evidence that the rebels have used sarin gas, and also that the Turkish police not long ago has arrested rebels/terrorists from the Al-Nusra faction with 2kg sarin gas, shortly after the Reyhanli bombing, which as most suspect was a false flag operation by the islamofascists against Assad. So far what the west showed in terms of evidence of Assad's use of chemical weapons is laughable. If you read it is closely you will see that yesterday's US-statement is very weak and doesn't even claim to have direct evidence. That the USA is now bringing this chemical weapons story is simply a diversion to the Prism scandal. This is too obvious, so either the US-fascists are too smart for us and maybe they are advancing a much bigger plan, or they think we really are that stupid, or they really are that desperate. We also have to see it in the context that Assad has recently gained a big advantage in this war.
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:10:59 GMT -5
Post by Beingist on Jun 14, 2013 13:10:59 GMT -5
Compelling, Q. Got any sources?
The Powers That Be will have their war, and get rid of Assad, I'm sure, because it's in *their* interests to keep chaos reigning, so that they can make more money making war all over the world. To that end, I agree that the evidence (or, what I've read of it) is indeed laughable, but it's all the Powers That Be need to accomplish their ends.
Follow the money trail, is all I can say.
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Deleted
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:22:16 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 13:22:16 GMT -5
So far what the west showed in terms of evidence of Assad's use of chemical weapons is laughable. If you read it is closely you will see that yesterday's US-statement is very weak and doesn't even claim to have direct evidence. That the USA is now bringing this chemical weapons story is simply a diversion to the Prism scandal. This is too obvious, so either the US-fascists are too smart for us and maybe they are advancing a much bigger plan, or they think we really are that stupid, or they really are that desperate. We also have to see it in the context that Assad has recently gained a big advantage in this war. This is what I was thinking as well.
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:24:52 GMT -5
Post by Beingist on Jun 14, 2013 13:24:52 GMT -5
So far what the west showed in terms of evidence of Assad's use of chemical weapons is laughable. If you read it is closely you will see that yesterday's US-statement is very weak and doesn't even claim to have direct evidence. That the USA is now bringing this chemical weapons story is simply a diversion to the Prism scandal. This is too obvious, so either the US-fascists are too smart for us and maybe they are advancing a much bigger plan, or they think we really are that stupid, or they really are that desperate. We also have to see it in the context that Assad has recently gained a big advantage in this war. This is what I was thinking as well. Bear in mind, that doing anything in Syria also serves as a nice distraction from getting the whistle blown on them for tapping everyone's phones and internet. In the end, there's nothing any of us can do, that's for sure. The Elite will do whatever the Elite want to do.
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Deleted
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:25:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 13:25:22 GMT -5
Compelling, Q. Got any sources? The Powers That Be will have their war, and get rid of Assad, I'm sure, because it's in *their* interests to keep chaos reigning, so that they can make more money making war all over the world. To that end, I agree that the evidence (or, what I've read of it) is indeed laughable, but it's all the Powers That Be need to accomplish their ends. Follow the money trail, is all I can say. I think they want stability, just stability within their control. War and mayhem and seeming chaos might be part of that. Things are unstable now, especially since the Arab Spring.
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Deleted
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:26:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 13:26:04 GMT -5
This is what I was thinking as well. Bear in mind, that doing anything in Syria also serves as a nice distraction from getting the whistle blown on them for tapping everyone's phones and internet. Yes that's one of his points.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 13:27:46 GMT -5
In the end, there's nothing any of us can do, that's for sure. The Elite will do whatever the Elite want to do. This is precisely the conclusion they want you to believe in.
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:33:11 GMT -5
Post by Beingist on Jun 14, 2013 13:33:11 GMT -5
In the end, there's nothing any of us can do, that's for sure. The Elite will do whatever the Elite want to do. This is precisely the conclusion they want you to believe in. Not a matter of belief, but of experience.
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Deleted
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:46:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 13:46:08 GMT -5
This is precisely the conclusion they want you to believe in. Not a matter of belief, but of experience. Authority/Elite requires consent of the ruled. Sometimes that consent is willfully given, but most of the time unconsciously. I don't know what the 'experience' you refer to is, but it's unlikely to have sealed the movement of history, which contains many examples counter to your experience.
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:55:42 GMT -5
Post by Beingist on Jun 14, 2013 13:55:42 GMT -5
Not a matter of belief, but of experience. Authority/Elite requires consent of the ruled. Sometimes that consent is willfully given, but most of the time unconsciously. I don't know what the 'experience' you refer to is, but it's unlikely to have sealed the movement of history, which contains many examples counter to your experience. Studied History, dude. Got some degrees, even. Mark Twain said, "History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme." There's some rhyming going on with this whole chemical weapon usage thing. I can easily remember Colin Powell speaking to the U.N. about Iraq's 'weapons of mass destruction', and arguing how they should be removed. Guess what they actually found there. Same thing here. A highly repetitive tact for warmakers throughout the ages is the pretext. This chemical weapon thing is just another pretext. You'll see. And if there's something you can do to prevent it, by all means, have at it. You have my full support.
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 13:56:39 GMT -5
Post by silver on Jun 14, 2013 13:56:39 GMT -5
Not a matter of belief, but of experience. Authority/Elite requires consent of the ruled. Sometimes that consent is willfully given, but most of the time unconsciously. I don't know what the 'experience' you refer to is, but it's unlikely to have sealed the movement of history, which contains many examples counter to your experience. The possibility always exists - space - for the biggies to win a battle or two - but lose the war. What are we thinking?
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Deleted
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 14:03:44 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 14:03:44 GMT -5
Authority/Elite requires consent of the ruled. Sometimes that consent is willfully given, but most of the time unconsciously. I don't know what the 'experience' you refer to is, but it's unlikely to have sealed the movement of history, which contains many examples counter to your experience. Same thing here. A highly repetitive tact for warmakers throughout the ages is the pretext. This chemical weapon thing is just another pretext. You'll see. I'm hearing the same rhyme. I hope I don't 'see' what I think you see, though. I know Americans are gullible and have a savior president, but short-term memory may help.
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bubbles
Jun 14, 2013 14:22:46 GMT -5
Post by tzujanli on Jun 14, 2013 14:22:46 GMT -5
Greetings..
What is being overlooked is the influence of fundamentalist Muslims.. the superpowers may awaken to a giant they simply overlooked.. there's a rip in the stockings of Lady Liberty's war machine, slowly unraveling, slowly realizing the real enemy is a desire for stability, and the big powers aren't interested, so.. the region, and the world Muslim population begins to see that they are being played as pawns in game where only the elite actually benefit.. the euro crisis can further empower the oppressed 'wealth machine' that has to pay for government waste and misappropriation through their sacrifices and sweat, the euro crisis can generate empathy for a fundamentalist 'worker' revolution, and.. it could be hijacked just the Arab Spring.. there's a cautionary tale here..
Be well..
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