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Post by dominicus on Jan 6, 2011 20:06:20 GMT -5
So in Bernadette's book "experience of no self", she describes a silence within and then dropping down into it ....like an elevator.
Has anyone experienced this and can add to this?
Trying to do so in meditation, I can't, letting go of trying ...and there is just silence and no "dropping."
However all glimpses that have happened for myself, of no-self .....there was a sort of dropping deep down into myself exactly how Bernadette has described.
This was so subtle and was completely outside of myself trying to do so. Many times upon waking abruptly from a nap, I find myself deep down within.
One time in those deep down cavern ....there was just an unknowingness of all things and it was GREAT, in retrospect of course.
Anyone have more insights into this?
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Post by zendancer on Jan 6, 2011 21:18:05 GMT -5
Dominicus: Bernadette practiced silence from a very early age, so her ability to drop within was probably easier for her than for other people who have not practiced silence for a long time.
In various forms of Zen meditation such dropping into deep states of silence is well known and much has been written about it. If, for example, you practiced "shikan taza" or breath awareness with great intensity, you might very well fall into deep states of samadhi--a form of unity consciousness that is indescribable. These states usually occur when all thought comes to a stop. In the book, "Zen Training," by Sekida, samadhi is discussed in depth. In samadhi, selfhood is totally absent, but pure awareness remains. You could learn to enter these states if you are sufficiently interested and motivated.
However, entering such states is not the goal or ultimate purpose of meditation. The goal, which is not really a goal, is to reach a point where ordinary life is lived non-reflectively. This is called "non-abidance in the mind." It is like floating down a river rather than fighting upstream against the current. It is living life in the moment and accepting whatever happens as the will of God.
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inca
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Post by inca on Jan 6, 2011 21:37:51 GMT -5
This is called "non-abidance in the mind." Why use "non-abidance in the mind" instead of "abiding in awareness"? Doesn't the mind or the ego disappear or get destroyed upon enlightenment? Or you are saying that for non-enlightened people?
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 6, 2011 21:45:05 GMT -5
The mind, ego never gets destroyed. It gets found out for what it is. Michael
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inca
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Post by inca on Jan 6, 2011 21:48:45 GMT -5
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Post by zendancer on Jan 6, 2011 22:12:01 GMT -5
This is called "non-abidance in the mind." Why use "non-abidance in the mind" instead of "abiding in awareness"? Doesn't the mind or the ego disappear or get destroyed upon enlightenment? Or you are saying that for non-enlightened people? Inca: "Abiding in awareness" is okay, but this makes it sound a bit like the mind has been destroyed. It hasn't. The mind functions more like a faithful servant rather than a controlling tyrant. The mind is used whenever it is necessary, but there is no attachment to the thoughts that arise from it, and no confusion between what is imagined and what is real.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 7, 2011 14:15:19 GMT -5
Oops missed this. Well ZD just shared with you what I said and it's true you can never destroy the mind or ego. It's what holds this imaginary world together. Once you find out what the mind/ego really is then all that is ever needed is to observe what happens and you do not need to even do that. Michael
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 7, 2011 15:20:37 GMT -5
So in Bernadette's book "experience of no self", she describes a silence within and then dropping down into it ....like an elevator. Has anyone experienced this and can add to this? Trying to do so in meditation, I can't, letting go of trying ...and there is just silence and no "dropping." However all glimpses that have happened for myself, of no-self .....there was a sort of dropping deep down into myself exactly how Bernadette has described. This was so subtle and was completely outside of myself trying to do so. Many times upon waking abruptly from a nap, I find myself deep down within. One time in those deep down cavern ....there was just an unknowingness of all things and it was GREAT, in retrospect of course. Anyone have more insights into this? Enjoy Michael [youtube] www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3MSn7XmLy4&feature=related[/youtube][youtube] www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjZO4791C6c&feature=related[/youtube]
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Post by m on Jan 7, 2011 15:31:36 GMT -5
This is called "non-abidance in the mind." Why use "non-abidance in the mind" instead of "abiding in awareness"? Doesn't the mind or the ego disappear or get destroyed upon enlightenment? Or you are saying that for non-enlightened people? because there is not even awareness. m
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mits
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Post by mits on Jan 7, 2011 16:04:52 GMT -5
However, entering such states is not the goal or ultimate purpose of meditation. The goal, which is not really a goal, is to reach a point where ordinary life is lived non-reflectively. This is called "non-abidance in the mind." It is like floating down a river rather than fighting upstream against the current. It is living life in the moment and accepting whatever happens as the will of God. Zendancer I have to admit it is quite hard living life in the moment and accepting whatever happens as the will of God. Does that mean if one is stuck in a dead-end job then it is the will of God. It seems to be more about surrendering and acceptance to me... Also by the way is synchronocity and serendipity a will of god or is it a blessing from source. As weird things have happened to me in the past and one cannot make sense of it. What are you thoughts on these?
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Post by zendancer on Jan 7, 2011 23:04:48 GMT -5
However, entering such states is not the goal or ultimate purpose of meditation. The goal, which is not really a goal, is to reach a point where ordinary life is lived non-reflectively. This is called "non-abidance in the mind." It is like floating down a river rather than fighting upstream against the current. It is living life in the moment and accepting whatever happens as the will of God. Zendancer I have to admit it is quite hard living life in the moment and accepting whatever happens as the will of God. Does that mean if one is stuck in a dead-end job then it is the will of God. It seems to be more about surrendering and acceptance to me... Also by the way is synchronocity and serendipity a will of god or is it a blessing from source. As weird things have happened to me in the past and one cannot make sense of it. What are you thoughts on these? Mits: The truth is beyond words or thoughts, but we can use words to point to the truth. Is a dead-end job the will of God? Yes. Is a fabulous fascinating high-paying job the will of God? Yes. There is only oneness here, so whatever is happening is the will of God. There is no one who can surrender to anything or accept anything because there is only oneness. Oneness manifests as apparent dead-end jobs, apparent blessings, apparent synchronicity, apparent weirdness, etc, and you're right; one cannot make sense of it. The mind can't get it at all. It is absolutely unimaginable. Is it hard to live life in the moment and accept whatever happens as the will of God? Only if you think something should be happening that is other than what is happening. If you watch what is happening without having ideas about what should be happening, you will find that life is a lot of fun.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 8, 2011 10:28:00 GMT -5
Is it hard to live life in the moment and accept whatever happens as the will of God? Only if you think something should be happening that is other than what is happening. If you watch what is happening without having ideas about what should be happening, you will find that life is a lot of fun. Hi ZD nice simple understandable. Would it be correct to say God's free will in the context you are speaking. I will say of course as how can anything the Absolute right. The other question bearing more important to be is from the quote above also. I live my life this was just seeing what happens next. This way of living by just seeing and not adding helps immensely and look what I have gone through over the few months from broke in Panama till now and most of the time I was in peace not all but most. But here's my comment. Let's say someone who is awaken at least to the point of knowing their is no personal self and also just lives the life as we do be seeing what happens but his body has severe pain every day and he cannot work and lives on the streets. Do you honestly think life for him is a happy one even though he knows the truth. I am not speaking that he understands the concept of no-self but he lives it.. My point is that it's far easier for me to say just see what happens next to someone that is in a healthy conditions with a roof and food than someone on the street. What say you? Thanks Michael
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Post by karen on Jan 8, 2011 11:38:46 GMT -5
Too much imagination!
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Post by zendancer on Jan 8, 2011 11:48:31 GMT -5
What is is what is. Sometimes pain is present and sometimes pleasure is present, but these things are not experienced by anyone separate from the wholeness of what is. There is only This, and This is utterly empty. There is no watcher of This. When This turns around (figuratively speaking) and reflects upon Itself, the world of appearances and seeming separateness arises. A person in good health is not really a person in good health, and a homeless suffering bum is not really a homeless suffering bum. When we speak of God's will, it is just a figure of speech pointing to how _________________ manifests.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 8, 2011 11:59:09 GMT -5
Well yes sure it is but what is not in this world. What I am trying to drive here is the real benefits of knowing who you are and living in a world with such intense imagine polarity. It's very easy to do if your life is basically stable to just sit on the will of god and see what happens next. It's another thing to do if you do not know where your next meal is coming from and you are really hurting. It would be wonderful to hear more stories of folks that feel they have awaken at least some to the illusion of the world and to share if this awakening has helped them. Why have such a hard time with this. If only healthy ,stable people living in a safe and nice situation in life talk about this path so what?
Anyhow this kind of talk brings up a lot of defensiveness in some so what?
Michael
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