ichc
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by ichc on Jan 5, 2011 19:05:26 GMT -5
Not sure about that ZD you sill need a mind to bring it back that you are seeing the actual if not how can you even say you are seeing? You can just be being without a mind like even a rock but honestly you think a rock realizes it's a rock? Michael A rock is 'what is.' You only need to realize stuff when you're lost.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 5, 2011 19:22:26 GMT -5
Do you think that's true? Everything is just is in the true sense. However to be just is in a imaginary world you need a imaginary mind to bring back to you that you have realized anything. What came first? Michael
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ichc
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by ichc on Jan 5, 2011 19:27:14 GMT -5
Only what is imagined is imaginary. Nothing came first. And it stayed that way ever since.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 5, 2011 19:55:47 GMT -5
Are you so sure about that or do you say it just because it seems true to you?
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ichc
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by ichc on Jan 5, 2011 20:29:01 GMT -5
I'm just writing what I see.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 5, 2011 20:34:17 GMT -5
Only what is imagined is imaginary. Nothing came first. And it stayed that way ever since. Ichc is exactly right. As noted earlier, there is a difference between body realization/seeing and mind realization/imagining. I can see and know or I can see and know that I know. The first seeing is through the body and the second seeing/imagining is through the mind's eye. IOW, we can choose to interact with the world directly through our senses and know the world directly. When we do this we are not using the intellect. The intellect is only necessary for knowing that we know--for reflecting imaginatively upon the situation. A few moments ago, just for fun, I got up from the computer in total mental silence, walked through our office while looking around, went to the bathroom and washed my hands, looked in the mirror, and then returned to the computer. I saw and interacted with "what is" along the way and "knew" it directly through the body. Only one thought occurred on that short trip. The thought was, "To know that I know what I am now seeing I would have to activate imagination and reflect upon what is being seen." After having that thought, the body smiled, returned to silence, and walked back here to the computer and started typing these words. When the mind is silent, the world is empty but self-illuminating. In that isness there is no selfhood, no time or space, and no things of any kind. What is true is seen but not reflected upon and not known through the mind.
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Post by enigma on Jan 6, 2011 0:17:15 GMT -5
Not sure about that ZD you sill need a mind to bring it back that you are seeing the actual if not how can you even say you are seeing? You can just be being without a mind like even a rock but honestly you think a rock realizes it's a rock? Michael A rock is 'what is.' You only need to realize stuff when you're lost. Mmmm, yuppers, and you can only be lost when you're trying to get somewhere. "Seeing the actual" is about not seeing the illusions formed in mind. If we really were mind, it would be necessary to "bring it back to mind", but mind is something that appears, or not, to what you really are, and when it does not appear, the actual is actually unavoidable. From the perspective of mind identification it seems that nothing at all is going on unless and until it can be understood and conceptualized, so there's the idea that nothing can be realized until mind declares it is, which is really pretty funny. To take off on the above quote, you only need to realize the truth as long as you think you know it.
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Post by enigma on Jan 6, 2011 0:18:52 GMT -5
Only what is imagined is imaginary. Nothing came first. And it stayed that way ever since. I like those one-liners. Hehe.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 6, 2011 10:11:41 GMT -5
Seen by what? The absolute seeing itself can be the only answer. This is the same as saying the old Hindu explanation that when the body/mind falls away at death or in deep sleep even it's as one drop falling back into the ocean. So why would there be any seeing at all? I must believe there is more to this that. For example the experience you had that you wrote about in your book was not of the absolute it was seen by you only with the help of consciousness. If not then you would just have the experience of deep sleep and would not be able to speak of it? Anyhow I am fine leaving it at there is much more to the absolute than we can ever know. Peace Michael When the mind is silent, the world is empty but self-illuminating. In that isness there is no selfhood, no time or space, and no things of any kind. What is true is seen but not reflected upon and not known through the mind.
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Post by therealfake on Jan 6, 2011 13:01:25 GMT -5
What is the difference between self realisation and enlightenment? My teacher has explained it in two stages: Self realisation: absence of ego, self God realisation: Union with the Divine (Enlightenment) Can anyone add to this? Hi Roberto, Your teacher is right, it is correct to split the two concepts. What we are is both a human and a being. I also think that it is a mistake to deny one or the other, as each has it's own relative truth, as it appears in the awareness. One master has stated that we are here to achieve one thing and that is to unite the human with the being. To have the esoteric without the practicality of the human reality, lacks the totality necessary, to discover that we are simply "life" in a human form.
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