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Post by wynn on Dec 29, 2010 11:55:30 GMT -5
My analogy perhaps works better for "infinite possibilities" than "free will".
I understand that anything I do is fleeting, but something must remain - experience perhaps.
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Post by enigma on Dec 29, 2010 12:47:43 GMT -5
Free will implies separation. So there is not infinite possibilities? No there is not infinite possibilities. It's not possible for there to be anything but God and it's not possible for God to die. Infinite potential refers to appearances. Anything can appear. It can even appear that you are a separate, autonomous being with free will.
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Post by wynn on Dec 29, 2010 13:28:10 GMT -5
No there is not infinite possibilities. It's not possible for there to be anything but God and it's not possible for God to die. Infinite potential refers to appearances. Anything can appear. It can even appear that you are a separate, autonomous being with free will. Very nice reply, thank you.
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Post by enigma on Dec 29, 2010 21:14:21 GMT -5
Yer very welcome.
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Post by m on Jan 2, 2011 13:35:49 GMT -5
So funny ZD ! For I don't know what reason I was re-reading what wou wrote (underneath) and when I red : "Enlightenment is about seeing the actual," I got it a-new, totally simple and evident in the evident, not new but new! So funny ! This is why I like you so much ! So simple and so funny. this is what i like in Enlightenment! Like a cartoon story! thank you for sharing this! Then I had another little gift. i many times felt kind of unsatisfied by the very wise advice you give us, here and there. And when i red : " I tell them to shift attention from thoughts to what they can see or hear" Iwhat came right away to my mind is that most people would right away try to do it through what they suppose they are ! So it just make the whole game worst (even if not possible :-) ! m Yep, Carol and I were talking about this last night. She asked, "Do you see any difference between someone, like Ramana, who walked around Arunachula in silence a great deal and someone (by which she meant me) who trades stocks and lives a conventional life?" I said, "Yes." She said, "Okay, what's the difference?" I laughed and said, "Ramana walked around Arunachula in silence all day and I trade stocks and live a conventional life." She laughed and then said, "Well, Ramana said that a Bodhisattva's most important job is to save people." I replied, "I don't think Ramana said that, but if he did, don't get attached to those words. It's just another idea to get rid of. Enlightenment is about seeing the actual, knowing the difference between the imaginary and the actual, and being clear about what has to be done moment to moment. Besides, there is no one who needs to be saved or can be saved because there is no one here. Ramana knew that he had to stay on Arunachula. I know that I have to be sitting here talking to you. Tomorrow I may trade stocks, or drive to another city on a construction job, or do a thousand other things, but what will actually happen tomorow remains unknown and unknowable until then. I have no idea right now what I will need to be doing one minute from now, but one minute from now I'll know. Tomorrow I will also know. Things are much simpler than can be imagined. What IS happening is what MUST be happening; all else is imagination." Carol then said, "Until someone discovers the truth is it fair to say that it is frustrating?" I said, "It is only frustrating for people who aren't satisfied with whatever is happening. If someone who has never heard about non-duality is satisfied with life, then there is no problem. They do whatever they have to do, and they live in a dreamlike state centered on satisfying self-centered desires. The only problems they encounter are problems involving satisfying their imaginary needs and desires. A different kind of problem arises when someone becomes dissatisfied with having a dualistic perspective and wants to attain a non-dualistic perspective. This kind of person has a HUGE problem because the person who is trying to get rid of selfhood and a dualistic perspective doesn't exist." Carol said, "So, what do you tell someone like that?" I said, "I tell them that when they are totally involved in some activity, there is no reflection and selfhood is absent. I tell them to shift attention from thoughts to what they can see or hear. When they attend the actual, selfhood is absent in the same way as when they are 100% involved in some activity. Selfhood only appears when the mind reflects and a person imagines separateness. In fact, there is no separateness of any kind. There is no one who can become enlightened, or become unified with God, or do anything. That is the illusion. There is only oneness here and its not even oneness; it is beyond even the idea of oneness. That which is sitting here now is talking to Itself. There are not two people here; there is only This." Carol said, "Well, I need to find a non-duality website where you're not present." I thought to myself, "That's going to be very hard to do." Ha ha. She said, "I mean, I live with you and hear this stuff all the time. I need to find someone who can say it in such a way that it resonates with me better." I agreed with her. Life is very funny sometimes.
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Post by m on Jan 2, 2011 13:41:12 GMT -5
Right ! The book MUST be written as we go along! m "What IS happening is what MUST be happening; all else is imagination." To me MUST seems to imply an absence of free will. The book is written as we go along, no? But I do realize that This is all there is, that each moment is exactly as it should be. But like a seed, which holds the blueprint, however its ultimate future is unknown, subject to the unfolding conditions that surround it.
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Post by m on Jan 2, 2011 13:43:00 GMT -5
Not at all quite the contrary ! m Free will implies separation.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 2, 2011 14:10:47 GMT -5
Free will or lack of free will? Ha ha! Wash the dishes. Relative or Absolute? Wash the dishes. What is the purpose or meaning of life? Doing those dishes. What happens before life or after death? Scrub scrub scrub. Gotta love those dishes. LOL
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Post by m on Jan 2, 2011 14:29:55 GMT -5
Free will or lack of free will? Ha ha! Wash the dishes. Relative or Absolute? Wash the dishes. What is the purpose or meaning of life? Doing those dishes. What happens before life or after death? Scrub scrub scrub. Gotta love those dishes. LOL
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Post by enigma on Jan 2, 2011 15:07:31 GMT -5
How so? Not at all quite the contrary ! m Free will implies separation.
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Post by Portto on Jan 2, 2011 16:25:33 GMT -5
Free will or lack of free will? Ha ha! Wash the dishes. Relative or Absolute? Wash the dishes. What is the purpose or meaning of life? Doing those dishes. What happens before life or after death? Scrub scrub scrub. Gotta love those dishes. LOL Nice! Though I'd guess it you had a big party for New Year's at your place and the guests left without doing the dishes.
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Post by Portto on Jan 2, 2011 21:21:06 GMT -5
OK, My turn to do the dishes.
Thank you for posting, ZenDancer! Wonderful posts!
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Post by m on Jan 3, 2011 11:03:36 GMT -5
No how! m How so? Not at all quite the contrary ! m
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 3, 2011 14:17:05 GMT -5
Free will or no free will?
Has it ever occurred to the members here that every one is correct even one I will never mention again. Look the best we can do and be honest about it is to speak from our level of realization anything else is only conjecture.
What happens here though is someone says we have free will and another hints free will implies separation and maybe another says it's all God and we for sure have no free will. All these comments are only theories that's it. None of it can ever become a proof like you do in math to prove a theory. Also the comments come from different levels of realizations. In the ultimate none of it matters because it's all lies. Everything is a lie some make more sense than others but none can come close to defining what God, Absolute is.
Given this all forums including this one are simply a playground for ideas because our minds likes ideas. It's the nature for most of us to try and figure out a puzzle or a mystery. The mind, ego loves it as much as we love ice cream. The real truth will never be found here in fact it will never be found anywhere in consciousness as consciousness itself is the great deceiver and the great deception it is not the helper you think. It's something that an be easily molded from any idea you want it to be. It's never truth.
A simple illustration of this and I am sure most every one has had this experience. I was living in my Moms house for over 3 months from the living room to the TV room on a small section of wall was a kookoo clock. But I never saw this clock for almost 90 days. If anyone told me a clock was there I would clearly tell them they are wrong and from my place of being it would be a true statement but true only for me. We do this kind of thing all the time. The moment we begin to look for anything the thing we look for begins to appear. So give this how could any forum,books, dvd's courses be of any help with the truth since all these made up words have been molded by us through consciousness.
Anyhow I was only rambling a bit as I see things Now, tomorrow Now may be different.
Michael
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Post by m on Jan 3, 2011 14:48:15 GMT -5
Michaelsees, I don't get the point. If there is any, could make it shorter? m Free will or no free will? Has it ever occurred to the members here that every one is correct even one I will never mention again. Look the best we can do and be honest about it is to speak from our level of realization anything else is only conjecture. What happens here though is someone says we have free will and another hints free will implies separation and maybe another says it's all God and we for sure have no free will. All these comments are only theories that's it. None of it can ever become a proof like you do in math to prove a theory. Also the comments come from different levels of realizations. In the ultimate none of it matters because it's all lies. Everything is a lie some make more sense than others but none can come close to defining what God, Absolute is. Given this all forums including this one are simply a playground for ideas because our minds likes ideas. It's the nature for most of us to try and figure out a puzzle or a mystery. The mind, ego loves it as much as we love ice cream. The real truth will never be found here in fact it will never be found anywhere in consciousness as consciousness itself is the great deceiver and the great deception it is not the helper you think. It's something that an be easily molded from any idea you want it to be. It's never truth. A simple illustration of this and I am sure most every one has had this experience. I was living in my Moms house for over 3 months from the living room to the TV room on a small section of wall was a kookoo clock. But I never saw this clock for almost 90 days. If anyone told me a clock was there I would clearly tell them they are wrong and from my place of being it would be a true statement but true only for me. We do this kind of thing all the time. The moment we begin to look for anything the thing we look for begins to appear. So give this how could any forum,books, dvd's courses be of any help with the truth since all these made up words have been molded by us through consciousness. Anyhow I was only rambling a bit as I see things Now, tomorrow Now may be different. Michael
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