|
Traps
Sept 21, 2010 15:40:04 GMT -5
Post by question on Sept 21, 2010 15:40:04 GMT -5
Seems to me like the whole problem comes from being results oriented, which in turn comes from not really liking the practise at all and hence doing it only to achieve something. When I'm doing something I love I don't care about the result unless striving for a certain outcome is an inherent part of that activity. One can enjoy doing art and strive to make a good artwork, but if one does art mainly in order to surpass Picasso, then one is going to fail miserably. So then how can you not be results oriented about something you don't want to do in the first place? Perhaps by not doing it at all? Unpossible! If I don't try then I'm going to die an ignorant schmuck like everyone else. If I try, then I'm already doing it wrong. Is this paradox another trap?
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 21, 2010 15:47:57 GMT -5
Post by karen on Sept 21, 2010 15:47:57 GMT -5
But aren't the "ignorant schmucks" also seeking? Seeking pleasure.
That's been what I've been seeking too - pleasure. Just more subtle pleasure.
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 21, 2010 16:47:20 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Sept 21, 2010 16:47:20 GMT -5
Perhaps by not doing it at all? Unpossible! If I don't try then I'm going to die an ignorant schmuck like everyone else. If I try, then I'm already doing it wrong. Is this paradox another trap? Question: What if you shifted your awareness from this thought to what you can see or hear? Then, if a thought arises about what's happening or why, you could again shift your attention to what you can see or hear, and so forth. You might try this just for fun. Each moment that you are looking or listening would be one moment that you're not thinking. While you are looking or listening, is there any paradox? Is there any problem? This is one of many gateways to _______.
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 6:26:22 GMT -5
Post by loverofall on Sept 22, 2010 6:26:22 GMT -5
Question: Do you ever practice nonconceptual awareness?
Who are you when you are not thinking (which seeking is a part of)?
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 7:00:50 GMT -5
Post by unveilable on Sept 22, 2010 7:00:50 GMT -5
I remember a time when my self identity was heavily tied to a belief that I was intelligent. So much energy was spent maintaining this identity with coworkers, friends and family and I had no idea how exhausting it was until I gave up that game. It seems like no one noticed that I gave this up because things still get done just as well as before. That was an enormous trap and if I could recommend giving this smart self-identity up I would but Im not sure that is of use to anyone.
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 7:04:32 GMT -5
Post by question on Sept 22, 2010 7:04:32 GMT -5
Unpossible! If I don't try then I'm going to die an ignorant schmuck like everyone else. If I try, then I'm already doing it wrong. Is this paradox another trap? Question: What if you shifted your awareness from this thought to what you can see or hear? Then, if a thought arises about what's happening or why, you could again shift your attention to what you can see or hear, and so forth. You might try this just for fun. Each moment that you are looking or listening would be one moment that you're not thinking. While you are looking or listening, is there any paradox? Is there any problem? This is one of many gateways to _______. No paradox, but still I'm doing it because I want to achieve something with it. I'm not being present for its own sake. I don't even like "being present". That's pretty disturbing I guess, a bit shocking for me when I figured that out. Relaxing to means to not be present, I just go away into Lalaland and when I come back I don't even know where I was. Question: Do you ever practice nonconceptual awareness? Who are you when you are not thinking (which seeking is a part of)? I try to, but it's really difficult to maintain over a long period. I go through stretches where I get motivated and after a week or two I stop the practise completely annoyed by the lack of success. I've tried to remove expectations from the practise and just "have fun" with it, but that also doesn't work, because when I'm honest with myself, I must admit that I really don't enjoy the practise at all.
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 7:23:42 GMT -5
Post by robert on Sept 22, 2010 7:23:42 GMT -5
quest- you may want to realize that the practice zen gave IS non-conceptual awareness it is simply called something else. when practicing one must give the mind something to do, a focus. like noticing what's going on around what you can see and hear, the brain is occupied. i think we all know how impossible it is to simply say to the brain, okay STOP thinking conceptually. give the brain an activity. robert
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 7:38:20 GMT -5
Post by frankshank on Sept 22, 2010 7:38:20 GMT -5
I remember a time when my self identity was heavily tied to a belief that I was intelligent. So much energy was spent maintaining this identity with coworkers, friends and family and I had no idea how exhausting it was until I gave up that game. It seems like no one noticed that I gave this up because things still get done just as well as before. That was an enormous trap and if I could recommend giving this smart self-identity up I would but Im not sure that is of use to anyone. I've watched a fair few Conscious TV videos and the male interviewer make me laugh (bless him). He doesn't seem to get non duality and often looks puzzled (like me LOL) and I think in every interview he makes some sort of reference to the importance of intelligence. He's clinging on to it so tightly but doesn't seem to be aware of it.
|
|
waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 11:32:45 GMT -5
Post by waddicalwabbit on Sept 22, 2010 11:32:45 GMT -5
lovely thread, Karen. I'll list mine. You want them chrono or alpha?
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 12:01:11 GMT -5
Post by karen on Sept 22, 2010 12:01:11 GMT -5
I've watched a fair few Conscious TV videos and the male interviewer make me laugh (bless him). He doesn't seem to get non duality and often looks puzzled (like me LOL) and I think in every interview he makes some sort of reference to the importance of intelligence. He's clinging on to it so tightly but doesn't seem to be aware of it. I love the one with Wayne Liquorman where he's lost when Wayne describes the difference between the sage and saint - he's totally lost (which I feel mildly superior about).
|
|
dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 13:36:43 GMT -5
Post by dei on Sept 22, 2010 13:36:43 GMT -5
I've had to stop playing scrabble online with my pals because it really brings out that 'intelligence' thing (also a competitive thing which i can't stand)... it feels ugly to want to win. ewww Recently i've heard myself say "i don't want to think anymore" finally! Once that happened, it was clear that i don't have to think, at least not all the time... so i sit without thinking (thoughts come and go but they ain't mine and i don't care about 'em) and look at ______ and the realization of "i could be ANYone sitting here" comes up and feels right. I am anyone. So that's my current practice... being anyone instead of someone. It may be a trap but anyone might get trapped there.
|
|
waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 16:18:28 GMT -5
Post by waddicalwabbit on Sept 22, 2010 16:18:28 GMT -5
my biggest one is anyplace where the ego looks for meaning. There's got to be a pony in this pile of crap someplace. There's GOT to be some meaning. Maybe if I, blahblah, or if I WHATEVER! SOMETHING PLEASE! SOME reason to EXIST! to SHOW UP! I'm not so obsessed with practicing or the next great book or 'achieving' some level of spirituality at this point. Screw that. I don't SEEM to be attached to whether or not someone thinks I'm spirutally or intelligent anymore.
Right now, my RV is looking at me with her sad little headlights saying, "Let's hit the ROAD, dad! Get out of here before the weather turns to crap and HEAD SOUTH! The open ROAD, the smell of Diesel exhaust!" She wants to go. Last time I did that it almost killed me, but the 'indications' are falling into place for driving south. I could stop at all the Adya sanghas on the way, Seattle, Olympia, Portland, Eugene or go down the OR/CA coast road. It's big and scary! But it doesn't feel like a search for 'meaning'. Seems to be flowing in the direction of another trip. I DO like the idea of hooking up, meeting with hanging out with some non dualists along the way (you don't find any in RV parks, dat's for sure). There could be some egoic meaning in wanting to do that. Not sure yet.
|
|
waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 16:20:47 GMT -5
Post by waddicalwabbit on Sept 22, 2010 16:20:47 GMT -5
Oh yeah and LOVE to all! Did I say that? I am grateful for this crazy chat board group! Thank you all for showing up with your spiritual 'slips' showing. HAHAHA! I crack myself up.
|
|
waddicalwabbit
Full Member
Let's all go down the wabbit hole
Posts: 125
|
Traps
Sept 22, 2010 17:02:07 GMT -5
Post by waddicalwabbit on Sept 22, 2010 17:02:07 GMT -5
oh YEAH! And another trap. Sometimes I get SO lonely and want someone to share my little life with. I think that's particularly sticky in light of my life situation. Not that I want someone to take care of me, but I'd feel a whole lot 'safer' on the road if I wasn't alone. I know some of that is natural and lovely and I've spent most of my life in relationship. But I've also done a lot of 'finding meaning' by being in relationship and it's often driven me to abandon some level of authentic expression. For me, it can TOTALLY be another form of illusion. Ahhhhh. The razor's edge. Balance.
|
|
|
Traps
Sept 23, 2010 7:49:10 GMT -5
Post by frankshank on Sept 23, 2010 7:49:10 GMT -5
I've watched a fair few Conscious TV videos and the male interviewer make me laugh (bless him). He doesn't seem to get non duality and often looks puzzled (like me LOL) and I think in every interview he makes some sort of reference to the importance of intelligence. He's clinging on to it so tightly but doesn't seem to be aware of it. I love the one with Wayne Liquorman where he's lost when Wayne describes the difference between the sage and saint - he's totally lost (which I feel mildly superior about). The look on Wayne Liquorman's face when he's asked to explain again is priceless. A true comedy moment.
|
|