Hello

[michaelsees]

It's interesting when we use words. Most people who have had a little time in non duality and understand it if you asked if someone is enlighten the answer would be no one is ever enlighten and they would be correct.
On the other hand we have this personal self called such and such a name, had a mother and father etc. You can the same question directly to the person in question and the answer could well be yes.
Nothing is for sure in this area by nature it remains a bit if e .

So when it comes to question if the person is enlighten even another enlighten person could get it wrong. There is no special enlighten ones club where you can check up the credentials on someone enlightenment. At best Niz was pissed off that he was teaching but no one can tell another person if they are enlighten or not. It's only the person itself that has this ability. Their is no magic consciousness where the master slips into to check your vibe to see if you are for real. None of that exists . This is exactly why we need to be extremely careful with this issue of enlightenment .

peace
michael

Sept 8, 2010 15:36:18 GMT -5 @oneiopen said:

"Maharaj could be quite scathing about people who claimed to be enlightened, but who weren't. Wolter Keers, a Dutch advaita teacher, was someone who fell into that category. Every so often he would come to Bombay to see Maharaj, and on every visit Maharaj would tell him off for claiming to be enlightened when he wasn't. On one visit he started lecturing Wolter before he had even properly entered the room. There was a wooden stairway that led directly into the room where Maharaj taught. As Wolter's head appeared above the top step, Maharaj suspended his other business and started laying into him.

'You are not enlightened! How dare you teach in the West, claiming that you are enlightened?'

On one of my other visits Wolter was due to arrive and Maharaj kept asking when he was going to appear.

'Where is he? I want to shout at him again. When is he going to arrive?'

On that particular visit I had to leave before Wolter came so I don't know what form the lecture took, but I suspect that it was a typically hot one."


For clarity, this is not from a book or tape, but from David Godman's direct experience as recorded in this interview on his website. Peace to all.

[boldieu]

this is all quite amusing. Nis yells at Keer, you two yell at each other-- such a show! isnt it great fun to get riled up? we all love it at times.
thanks-- boldieu

[jdpeak]

:)Without very much contradiction, I was led to this site via my interest in Dr Hawkins. I've read many of his books during difficult times and have found them thought provoking if somewhat dense and inaccessible. Yet his place on bottom, to be avoided has confused my new entree into spiritual awareness. I am to the captain of my soul, I know, yet Dr Hawkins seems to work from a helpful position ( Is his the profit motive?) and only something different than the author's purview?

[karen]

has Applied Kinesiology worked for you?