dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:48:42 GMT -5
I remember a 'best of' craigslist entry a while ago where a guy advertised for a Nemesis - nothing deadly, just someone to make his life interesting and it occurred to me this is my one big problem with 'enlightenment'.
Go back to being 'one'? Yuck. I mean, as a parent, the least satisfying future I could ever imagine for my children is having them being 'assimilated' Borg-style back into me.
If I were God (yeah, I know, I supposedly am), to me the most interesting future I could possibly create for myself would be by creating something completely self-aware yet autonomous and separate from myself - who knows what would happen!
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Post by Portto on Jul 12, 2010 13:30:51 GMT -5
You've got to give it to the Borg: they are really something. And they want to improve the quality of life for everybody in the universe.
We can't go back to being one, because we were never separate.
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Post by question on Jul 12, 2010 14:12:09 GMT -5
Haha, this is fun. In my opinon the borg collective is a pretty decent description of our society. Join or perish. Gotta be really intelligent, creative or lucky to break out. I've been fascinated by Star Trek since I can remember, I still watch the shows regularly. When I went to school, I always felt like the system wanted to make a little borg out of me. The borg are a collective of individuals who all think alike. If one borg doesn't, it will be killed and recycled. In nonduality there are no individuals period. I see none of the borg behaviour expressed in nonduality teachings.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 12, 2010 14:35:01 GMT -5
You've got to give it to the Borg: they are really something. And they want to improve the quality of life for everybody in the universe. We can't go back to being one, because we were never separate. Precisely! |
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Post by klaus on Jul 12, 2010 14:49:40 GMT -5
Haha, this is fun. In my opinon the borg collective is a pretty decent description of our society. Join or perish. Gotta be really intelligent, creative or lucky to break out. I've been fascinated by Star Trek since I can remember, I still watch the shows regularly. When I went to school, I always felt like the system wanted to make a little borg out of me. The borg are a collective of individuals who all think alike. If one borg doesn't, it will be killed and recycled. In nonduality there are no individuals period. I see none of the borg behaviour expressed in nonduality teachings. Question, What is the difference between being one or a collective? Identity is lost in both. |
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jul 12, 2010 15:41:21 GMT -5
You've got to give it to the Borg: they are really something. And they want to improve the quality of life for everybody in the universe. We can't go back to being one, because we were never separate. Maybe it's that I don't understand the 'reason/purpose/what-for' of a 'one' play-manifesting itself into a 'many'... To experience life as a blade of a grass or a fly? C'mon, how many blades of grass or flies to you need to 'experience' life through? "Waves falling back into an ocean" - seems very sad and lonely. Why not just let the waves be their own thing - forever? Seems much more interesting. |
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Post by enigma on Jul 12, 2010 15:59:58 GMT -5
"If I were God (yeah, I know, I supposedly am), to me the most interesting future I could possibly create for myself would be by creating something completely self-aware yet autonomous and separate from myself - who knows what would happen!"
Isn't that apparently what has happened? I don't mean actually, but apparently. Assuming you really ARE this God thingy, it seems your interest (which would be God's interest, eh?) has become a seeming reality, with all the implied responsibility, struggle and suffering.
As the poem said:
Now you know why you must cry.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 12, 2010 16:13:39 GMT -5
.....or laugh.
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jul 12, 2010 16:14:55 GMT -5
" implied responsibility, struggle and suffering. As the poem said: Now you know why you must cry. ...but what of the excitement of the genuinely unknown and random? I mean, wouldn't sitting around the campfire singing 'Kumbaya' and bathing in everybody's unconditional (or your own) love get a tad boring after a while...? I'm getting the feeling that enlightenment is for chickens - a big mother's apron people duck behind when things get a little rough (and possibly worse since by the sounds of it one can't get un-enlightened). I'm just not seeing/feeling the draw. All very Stepford Wives sounding to me so far... |
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Post by Portto on Jul 12, 2010 16:43:29 GMT -5
Hey Dave,
You're worried only because you feel separate and in control.
And then, somewhat surprisingly, you worry that you will loose your feeling of separateness.
Don't worry, you'll always be able to worry if the need arises (although it may not last that long).
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Post by klaus on Jul 12, 2010 17:20:37 GMT -5
Dave,
There is no reason or purpose for what is, that's where you get into trouble, of you're own making.
I find it liberating to know there's no reason or purpose for what is.
Shake the belief that there is reason or purpose for what is because it begs the question- why?, and there is no why for what is.
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Post by enigma on Jul 12, 2010 23:25:32 GMT -5
" implied responsibility, struggle and suffering. As the poem said: Now you know why you must cry. Very quickly, i would think. I might have lost your 'drift', though. Sorry. I would say a sincere interest in awakening requires more courage than most folks can muster. I never understood how it could be imagined to be an escape, assuming one has a pretty clear picture of what it's about. Jed McKenna comes to mind, because this is pretty much how he sees the unawakened state. He also suggests avoiding the enlightenment deal if at all possible, and I agree with that, so it seems you're on the right track. |
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dave
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by dave on Jul 13, 2010 8:12:18 GMT -5
He also suggests avoiding the enlightenment deal if at all possible, and I agree with that, so it seems you're on the right track. And I would love to do so, but I seem to have ventured too near the whirlpool... Clearly, some real 'change' has occurred in many of the people I have read about, a change with a cost to be sure, but a change nonetheless that seems to have left them impervious to the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune of this world but still with a 'personality', still with the ability to laugh and see joy and make jokes... Me thinks it a consummation devoutly to be wished, but to be honest it scares the living bejesus out of me... Still, I shuffle toward the gallows... |
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Post by zendancer on Jul 13, 2010 10:54:06 GMT -5
He also suggests avoiding the enlightenment deal if at all possible, and I agree with that, so it seems you're on the right track. And I would love to do so, but I seem to have ventured too near the whirlpool... Clearly, some real 'change' has occurred in many of the people I have read about, a change with a cost to be sure, but a change nonetheless that seems to have left them impervious to the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune of this world but still with a 'personality', still with the ability to laugh and see joy and make jokes... Me thinks it a consummation devoutly to be wished, but to be honest it scares the living bejesus out of me... Still, I shuffle toward the gallows... Dave: Welcome to the club. I think it's more like a black hole than a whirlpool in strength for those who fall within the range of its gravity. LOL. I take the opposite tack from Jed. It is amazing to me that more people aren't interested in finding out why they're here and what's going on. Will the search for truth lead to change? Definitely. Will family and friends be happy to see you strike out into the unknown? Almost surely not. It will make them feel insecure, confused, sad, or angry. Sooner or later you will refuse to play your usual part in the family drama and then you'll see some real fireworks! LOL. You will see things that upset them as utterly inconsequential, and you will ignore the swirl of crazy ideas that keep jerking everyone else around. In one sense, you will be above the fray, and in another sense you will be so deeply immersed in the action that you and the action will be one and the same. Much of the time you will be amused at what worries, frightens, or angers others, but not amused in the sense of being aloof. You will simply see that others live in a world of ideas whereas you live in the reality of being. You will feel compassion for how ideas dominate peoples' lives, and you will keep pointing toward freedom no matter how often you are ignored. As Byron Katie would say, "That is simply the way of it." You can either live in accord with the Way, and accept "what is" as it is, or you can resist it. It's lots more fun to let go and enjoy the ride. Cheers. |
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Post by charliegee on Jul 13, 2010 11:07:17 GMT -5
yes ...
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