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Post by klaus on Jul 2, 2010 18:29:10 GMT -5
Anybody enlighten me on this guy?
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Post by question on Jul 3, 2010 5:35:06 GMT -5
Zil Chezero = zilch and zero?
I've read this (http://www.nonduality.com/dutchtreat.htm) excerpt and it seems like what everyone else is saying. Different vocabulary that is supposed to be maybe shocking, but no words can shock or push me in a corner anymore. But then again, I'm a mule, so whaddai know?
Klaus, do you know Karl Renz?
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Post by klaus on Jul 5, 2010 18:09:39 GMT -5
Hi Question,
Karl Renz.
He has a sense of humor; a plus in my book.
Like the way he approaches the subject of non- duality.
Have you ever seen him in person?
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Post by elduderino on Jul 6, 2010 0:56:08 GMT -5
I've seen Renz in person.
It seems to me that the guy is anything but enlightened. He is a very clever man who is very fluid in philosophy of Advaita. His "satsang" was just an empty talk to me. However, there are people who believe they are getting somewhere by playing with his concepts.
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Post by question on Jul 6, 2010 6:41:22 GMT -5
Klaus, no I've never met him. He sometimes gives satsangs in Cologne so I probably should have.
Dude, my impression too. He's very clever, but also fun to listen to, great entertainer. But whether he is enlightened or not, I haven't the slightest clue, so I'm not even going to try to speculate. So far though, I think he and Eckart Tolle are the only contemporary german advaita teachers that I can take seriously.
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Post by klaus on Jul 8, 2010 17:24:17 GMT -5
I've seen Renz in person. It seems to me that the guy is anything but enlightened. He is a very clever man who is very fluid in philosophy of Advaita. His "satsang" was just an empty talk to me. However, there are people who believe they are getting somewhere by playing with his concepts. elduderino, Can you expand on your comment. What was your gut impression? |
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Post by klaus on Jul 8, 2010 17:28:24 GMT -5
Klaus, no I've never met him. He sometimes gives satsangs in Cologne so I probably should have. Dude, my impression too. He's very clever, but also fun to listen to, great entertainer. But whether he is enlightened or not, I haven't the slightest clue, so I'm not even going to try to speculate. So far though, I think he and Eckart Tolle are the only contemporary german advaita teachers that I can take seriously. Question, There's a pdf: Eight days in Tiruvannamalia. www.karlrenz.com/english/8days.pdf |
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Post by elduderino on Jul 8, 2010 23:49:03 GMT -5
My gut impression was that in front of me was sitting a very clever egomaniac who was very fluid in theory of Advaita (as I mentioned before). He answered all questions in a very soulless manner if it can be said so. Apparently he chose a very comfortable advaitic intellectual position which gives him the right not to show any sign of compassion whatsoever. He says you are That already so you don't need any words or help to be what you are. So his whole behavior on the Satsang is built around that statement. He just mocks people and gives careless replies to their questions showing people that he completely doesn't give a d**n about them. As I said, no compassion at all. In theory such behavior should convince us that we are That already and that we don't need anything to be what we are (including Renz). In practice it is almost useless waste of time.
Also there is an atmosphere of formality and coldness on the Satsang. I see in him no love, no happiness and no freedom.
Again, some people like him. If you believe (!!!) what he says it may give you some relief and relaxation. For some time.
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Post by question on Jul 9, 2010 11:21:59 GMT -5
Klaus, thank you for the link. Dude: I have to disagree with the compassion thing. I have mainly watched the talks he gave in german. Although his english is sufficient, his german is extremely good, he's an artist with the german language, probably could be a standup comedian if he wanted to. (Here's a link: www.jetzt-tv.net/index.php?id=karlrenz ) He does joke around a lot, maybe sometimes unappropriately, but it's a very thin line. However there were cases when he was facing a serious question he immediately understood what's up, shut up quickly and gave a serious and personal answer, although without deviating from his main message. At one point he says that life in duality is like being in a concentration camp, I think one can't get more serious than that. Again, I haven't been to his satsangs, but from the videos he never appeared to me soulless or cold. But then again, I have a genuine aversion to teachers who whisper in a soothing voice about love, freedom, flowers and such. I guess some people like it rough, I'm one of them, lol. |
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Post by elduderino on Jul 9, 2010 12:21:33 GMT -5
"But then again, I have a genuine aversion to teachers who whisper in a soothing voice about love, freedom, flowers and such. "
I think it is all about honesty and balance. Actually anybody can say anything. I can learn all texts of Ramana by heart and start teaching it. But it would not make me a good teacher. Also I would not become enlightened. So to me words don't matter. Only behaviour.
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Post by oneiopen on Jul 9, 2010 22:06:36 GMT -5
There are so many teachers out there how can you tell if any one of them is enlightened? I understand that only another enlightened being can tell for sure who is and who isn't. For the rest of us, it's a crapshoot.
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Post by klaus on Jul 10, 2010 11:54:59 GMT -5
There are so many teachers out there how can you tell if any one of them is enlightened? I understand that only another enlightened being can tell for sure who is and who isn't. For the rest of us, it's a crapshoot. oneiopen, The simple answer is you can't tell. Therefore, trust no teacher, they will give you their direct experience of enlightenment and that's all it is-their direct experience. I would say the teachers' pointing the" way" is even useless, notice each teachers' path is different albeit arriving at the same point, but their way will never be your way. Their way will always be a dead end for you. You must find you own way. Save your cards and letters folks, I know what you're going to say. |
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Post by elduderino on Jul 10, 2010 12:09:12 GMT -5
"You must find your own way".
Indeed. I think it is very important to understand this. Following methods of spiritual teachers is a waste of time, more or less.
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Post by karen on Jul 10, 2010 12:18:53 GMT -5
Totally! Following a teacher word for word is following your assumptions word for word.
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